Also, Billy knew Rick already (in fact he had suggested Rick to Mick when Mick asked Billy to join and Billy voiced his concerns over playing lead guitar & Billy thought Rick would be a good fit, Mick said he worked with Rick at a previous session and liked him, not sure which one, my guess is Billy's Way Down from the Just One Of The Guys soundtrack, if it was something that was released) and I don't know if Billy knew Dave well if at all when he joined so there seems to have been a lot of assuming on Mick's part that everyone would hit it off which we now know was not the case at all.

John

Actually, I believe it was the other way 'round. Dave was staying in Mick's guest house in Malibu (or Pacific Palisades, wherever his house called "The Blue Whale" was)...while Mick was going through the motions trying to find a replacement for Rick, Dave just kept bugging Mick to just let him join the band & the search would be over. Mick kept putting him off for quite some time (according to some interview with Mick I read), but then finally relented. I think all the family tree stuff with Bekka's parents & Dave being in their band; and, Billy working with Delaney on an album or two, looked good on paper, but the reality didn't work as well as it probably should've, due to personalities that SEEMED like they'd mesh, when actually they didn't. (like what John said in his post right above me...note to self: read the ENTIRE previous post before hitting "reply")

This shouldn't be a debate, so I agree with you. You're right. And I'm right. Fleetwood Mac in name, is a brand, and the general public knows, more or less, the main image of that brand as Stevie, Lindsey and Christine.

Yet Fleetwood Mac, while undeniably a high profile band, isn't as culturally omnipotent and universally familiar as Micky Mouse or McDonald's. And, in context of the musical landscape of the early 199os, they teetered on the edge of obsolescence. It's hard to conceive, but there is a large demographic of humanity that are not intimately attentive to the band, and many may only have a vague knowledge about them, with faint familiarity and recognition of a few of their popular songs.

It's a real long shot to expect them to theorize or question how a such a legendary band could possibly be appearing at an amusement park. It's not even reverentially conscience to them. And even casual fans of the band -- fans who aren't ardently following their every move, might not even be aware of the band's current status at that point. The Time band configuration and the Time album flew a little a bit lower on the radar. I give major credit to Mick for adding another link in the chain to keep the band alive. Even though it wasn't the strongest link, it served a greater purpose. He previously faced a similar situation when Peter Green went adrift.

Yes, it's foolish, so you're right.:thumbsup:

When Time works, it works surprisingly well, which is more than I can say for Behind the Mask.

I remember first hearing it and thinking Christine sounded fantastic vocally. I just couldn't stand the keyboards she chose to use. What's wrong with an acoustic piano and a Hammond B3? Or any other number of more professional sounding synthesizers?

I Got It In for You is a great tune, as are Nothing Without You, Winds of Change, and Talking to My Heart.

I think the majority of the songs on Time are decent songs. The overall sound is a bit 'light' though. Everyone goes on about how Stevie needs Lindsey's production touch- I think the same can equally be said of Christine's material. Her songs on Time are good and could have possibly appeared on any of the previous albums. Perhaps if she'd had Lindsey's involvement they would have been elevated to another level. The same can be said of her contributions to Behind The Mask and her solo albums- all decent songs that are just a bit short of what they could have been.

I wonder how things would have panned out had Rick been in the Time band rather than Dave. Would the 'Rumours' band still gotten back together or would they have gone on harmoniously with a Mick, John, Billy, Rick, Bekka line-up? They would have never reached the heights of the past but I wonder whether they'd have been successful enough and happy enough to have continued for a while as a band. Rick Billy and Bekka would have made a really interesting creative grouping- ultimately a complete departure in sound and style from anything FM had done previously but I think they could have had some real success.

Absolutely. I'm not a musician myself, but I can certainly hear a difference in Christine's songs as they went from producer to producer between '87 and '97. For example, Little Lies (Lindsey/Richard) to Save Me (Greg Ladanyi) to Love Shines (Patrick Leonard) to I Do (Christine/Richard) and Temporary One (Lindsey/Elliot Scheiner...and a live recording). Anyone care to elaborate on what these guys did differently musically? All I can tell you is some sound clearer than others (ahem...BTM...).

That's a good question. If Mick had stayed true to form and called the band Fleetwood Mac (as he had every right to do), I think it would have been a very similar result in the end. Maybe an extra tour and a better album than Time, but I think the Rumours lineup reuniting was only a matter of time/money.

If I daydream and redo Time to focus on a Billy, Rick, and Bekka lineup (incorporating some solo songs from Billy/Rick and a few Christine contributions for posterity), maybe something like this:

Talking to My Heart
Desiree
Winds of Change
I Do
Walk Another Mile
Believe What You Say
Nothing Without You
Sooner or Later
Intuition
I Got It in for You
Dreaming the Dream
All Over Again

It was a very different time, different place, different people.

In 1976 the band was experiencing a huge wave of creative and commercial success. It's well documented that the chemistry they had was worth preserving despite the infighting. They had a future ahead of them.

By the time the of the Time, Fleetwood Mac's stature was in flux. Now they were old school. Two of the prominent members were gone, and the third one (Christine) was barely holding on. The market/music scene, as well as their image had changed drastically.

They're performing in amusement parks, with two other somewhat has-been bands. They hardly had the chemistry or constitution to withstand the tensions between them. It's not hard to understand why this configuration had a short shelve life. It hindsight, Christine's tentative presence was precursor

In circumspect, it was Mick's attempt to persevere; to keep Fleetwood Mac alive. It was another link in the chain; a place holder of sorts, which allowed the next chapter of the the band to unfold: The Dance.

A great re-imagined album. The other songs would have the benefit of Rick's guitar.

I'm not familiar with Believe What You Say. Is that a Rick song?

This is a video I shared on my Facebook page. I think it takes on a special meaning during the festive season.

If I live to see a world free of war, terror, hatred, selfishness and greed; then I will know that I can die happy.

Thanks! Believe What You Say is a Billy song from Are You With Me Baby. I haven't heard it or read the liner notes in a while, but I think it has Bekka on backing vocals. And All Music shows it as having been written by his dad and uncle, so you can probably guess the basic style (short, up-tempo rock-and-roll song).

The other early-90s scenario in my head is a Billy-less Behind the Mask, had they decided to keep the Rumours-era model of three singers/one guitarist (in this case, Rick given his lead guitarist role). Rick clearly worked well with Stevie, and I'd have been curious to hear what he and Christine would have come up with, given their grounding in the blues. I'll have to give that playlist some thought...

Billy quit in February, 1993. My new "What If" is what if Christine told Mick to wait nine months before adding any new blood. By then, Lindsey's solo tour would have been over. Based on some of the things he's said, Lindsey seemed pretty dejected about the experience. In truth, he worked his ass off trying to sell his masterpiece to no avail, and probably lost a lot of money on the tour. Worst still was that he wasn't able to really establish himself as a viable entity outside of Fleetwood Mac. The liberating feeling of being free from the band seemed to give way to the reality of being responsible for every detail of the live show.

I think if they had played their cards right, they could have gotten Lindsey back in late 1993. Christine would have had to be the on to initiate contact with him and they would have had to have a clearing of the air moment, but I think that could have happened, and they could have made an album as a quartet. And, Lindsey would have had enough material to front the live shows by himself .

Well put. That's exactly the way I'd put it, if I were as articulate as you are, Mike! I saw two shows at Clear Lake in California, one in 1994 and one in 1995. They were the most un-Brechtian Fleetwood Mac concerts I've ever seen. There wasn't even a glimmer of sparkle or theater in the performances. It was like watching a bunch of good musicians rehearse on a Saturday afternoon while their mates were grilling burgers out back. No glamour at all, no elation at hearing the classics being performed, and the tiny sense of sexual joy came from Bekka, but even that sexuality had no higher emotional feel—you watched Bekka and thought she was hot, but you didn't fall in love with her. Since 1967, people had been falling in love with one or more members of Fleetwood Mac at their concerts. But that identification was totally absent.

I always wondered what the deal was with Time? I though Christine had said that she was still willing to record new music but not tour. Then they did an album without her and it got rejected and then Chris returned to record Time with the new lineup. Why didn't she want to contribute to the initial recording sessions?

She was always, at least publicly, involved with the project. There were pictures of her playing with Bekka and Dave prior to Billy's return, and there's the one full band picture. In every interview they gave, she was still mentioned as being the Brian Wilson of Fleetwood Mac. The only songs that she's definitely not on are the ones where Steve Thoma is listed as keyboards, as opposed to additional keyboards.

Maybe she started the project with the band but decided to pull out midway through, maybe around the same time Richard Dashut left the project, but was forced back into it for contractual reasons. I have no idea because there's photographic evidence she was there from the start, was always mentioned in interviews, and I've never seen anything to suggest that she wasn't involved.

https://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m...ahxjo1_500.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...eMacD/FM94.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...odmac_1995.jpg

I thought though there was a CD "Another Link In The Chain" that got rejected by WB because none of the Rumors era Singers was on it and somehow she was convinced to return to the band and record with this lineup even though she did not tour.

I love Christine McVie and her music. She is a class act...the same cannot be said for her soul sister Stevie Nicks, I'm afraid. While Stevie is an equally talented singer-songwriter, she is not an accomplished musician - she can compose glorious melodies but cannot sustain a full concert with herself on piano and voice, like Christine can and did in 1984 for her second solo album.

Anyway, the album Time is horrendously under-rated simply because it does not feature Buckingham Nicks.

It was funny to read Christine's comments that Say You Will sounded to her like a Buckingham Nicks album with a great Fleetwood Mac rhythm section! Maybe she felt like she had missed out? She sounds great on Bleed to Love Her and Steal Your Heart Away, which were recorded I 1995, sans Stevie Nicks, I believe.

My favourite Fleetwood Mac album is Say You Will, despite the commentary here that says it is sub par.

Back to Time, I absolutely adore Winds of Change and These Strange Times is a welcome departure from the safe ground Fleetwood Mac had been treading musically since 1982's Mirage album.

I agree that Time is a nice listen, It features a variety of songs from several singers/songwriters - historically following the format they've always had. It's just an unexpected and somewhat obscure anomaly in their history.

Christine was spot on with her assessment of Say You Will being like a Buckingham Nicks album. While stating the obvious, I don't think she said it with any regret that she wasn't involved with it -- it wouldn't sound Buckingham Nicks-like if she was still in the band.

I think he would have first needed to go through the experience of having his 1995 album rejected. Remember he went straight from the tour to the recording of his next album.

P.S. Do Mick and John play the bass and drums on "Big Love" from Tango? And does Christine play on it?

Have y'all heard this? 90 minutes long. I just started watching it. Listen to the pipes on Bekka! Lord have mercy!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0F5ZSxXqPQ

Where you been? I think I made a thread about this last year some time. Too stuck in the world of chiffons and Persian carpets.

Don't judge me! :mad::mad::mad:

My chiffon cut my eyeball, and I was in insensitive care for a month!

It cut something else! :nod:

It could lop it in half, and I'd be fine. :lol::lol::lol:

OTOH, the most recent idea I’ve drunkenly had for this era would have been Mick, John, Frampton, and Agnetha Fältskog (which really wouldn’t have been realistic, since she was going through her own Christine-esq reclusive period, fear of flying and all). It still would have been an iconic ‘70s band, just not from the same entity.

Well that took a turn 😳

So, uh, how about that 1995 show? Who did a weirder take on the Go Your Own Way solo, Mason or Campbell? Because I think they both sucked.

She said in the Abba: The Winner Takes It All 1999 documentary, that she even didn't listen music. The silence was necessary she said.

Are you new here?:lol:

I'm not completely through it all yet. Currently listening to the weirdest Blue Letter I've ever heard, although I like it.

Okay, I just listened to GYOW. I didn't think it was bad at all? Why do you? Because he doesn't play Lindsey's solo?

I was shocked to hear Billy playing the guitar riff on Oh Well. I don't think I've ever heard him play ~ANY~ lead.

I am very new!!

I like how they did Blue Letter. I think it’s a perfect song for Bekka and Billy - it’s very early era Buckingham Nicks reminiscent.

Mason’s solo on GYOW just seems to ramble and doesn’t go anywhere. I’m guessing that yes, it’s because it’s not Lindsey’s solo and is a completely different take. It just seems to wander aimlessly right from the start. Campbell stuck to Lindsey’s version for the most part but it came off absolutely terrible. For what it’s worth, the 87-90 versions were solid and definitely created more of a rock anthem type ending to the show.

I had to go back and rewatch Oh Well and it is really strange that Billy would play lead. I had to go look at a Rick era version to make sure I wasn’t losing it and that Rick played the riff back then.