Mick's book- the "Time" Band
 

Just read the couple of pages devoted to this line-up in Mick's book. Entertainingly grim is how I would put it. Dave and Bekka didn't hit it off to say the least (what, quarrels in this band? Plus ça change!). Mick was hoping against hope that Chris would rescind her decision not to tour, but was left with what he had and had to make the best of it until he had to collapse it realising his mistake. He's kinder about the music they produced and just says they were a good band with the wrong name.. Behind the Mask barely gets a mention at all...

I always wondered if there were issues between them, considering he has a history with the family.

Either way, THE only reason Dave Mason ever ended up in Fleetwood Mac was because Billy quit.

Yeah, Mick says he'd been hoping that's a reason they WOULD get on, have good chemistry, etc, because they'd known each other via family for so long. But as Mr Scarrot said, not so much. Quite the opposite.

Oddly enough, though, that WAS the case for her with Billy.

So, Christine didn't like Dave, Bekka didn't like Dave, Richard Dashut didn't like Dave...Why exactly did they keep him around after Billy Burnette came back?

Billy didn't feel comfortable playing lead guitar so as was the reason with Rick being there, they needed another guitarist for that if nothing else.

John

If that was the case they could've just gotten somebody who didn't sing, such as Gregg Wright from the Zoo, to handle the leads. The weird thing is Billy actually played many of the leads on the old Fleetwood Mac songs.

I saw Billy at the Country Music Hall of Fame, with Pete Anderson(Dwight Yoakam's long time guitar player and producer, for those who don't know). Billy played a few solos, and did fine. Yeah, he's not gonna knock your socks off, but he can hold his own.

True, but as we know Mick never thinks there's too many singer/songwriters in the band so it may have been insurance in case Christine didn't come back and he must've known she wouldn't run back once she knew Mason was now in the band. I'd be very surprised if he claims to have no knowledge of her misgivings on him.

Yeah I think Billy's solos are fine as well but I guess he doesn't so...

Not saying Mason was the right thing to do, just trying to put myself in Mick's shoes as to why he may have come to the decisions he did but I know, hindsight is 20/20. :)

John

I think adding Dave made sense after Billy quit, but he became unnecessary after Billy came back, especially since the other two singers and the producer weren't digging him. Too much unnecessary drama.

Yeah knowing this now makes one wonder why the penny didn't drop with Mick.

John

There was an interview with Christine in 1995 where she did an online chat interview (the internet was coming of age then) where she openly criticized the guitarists in Fleetwood Mac and questioned Mick's judgment. I remember reading that and was like WOW she really did not like them or their talent.

The only one she was negative about was Dave. She made a joke about Billy, but it was clearly a joke. Billy was on her 2004 solo album, so I think she had warm feelings for him.

Why did rick leave

Mick said Rick left to launch his own solo career. In the past, Stevie has said that Rick was not happy when Mick refused to let Stevie have the Silver Springs recording and that Rick sided with Stevie over Mick.

Michele

This is the one thing Rick won't comment on in his career. You can ask him anything else and he'll answer it but not this. Sure makes you wonder...

John

yes you are right. I did not mean to imply Billy since they are friends and they played together. She meant the new guitarists. Billy was established with the band them.

And of course Rick toured with Stevie on the Street Angel tour.

Michele

I think I read him saying something once about not having enough creative space or something. Could be misremembering though. Certainly he only had the one solo lead vocal on BTM - Stand On the Rock which was very much my favourite track on the album when it came out. Still think it's a real shame that line-up didn't last another album or two. Rick brought such an edge to Fleetwood Mac and gelled really well musically with Mick and John.

Yes well "creative differences" was the blurb given to the press at the time but what the real reason was is anybody's guess. I'm sure it didn't help in this regard that many recorded but unused RV tracks (that had leaked out on boots) were considered by fans to be much better than what was used on BTM but based on what I've pieced together is that it was mainly due to a personal family matter as to the main reason he quit. I guess we'll never know for sure though.

John

Billy and Bekka made a nice country album together! They have similar musical pedigrees.

Fleetwood Mac severely under-utilized Rick's talent and contributions to the band. He brought the blues back to the band full circle, but he was painted into a small corner. Had that configuration of the band evolved, it would have been fascinating to see them adopting a more bluesy style -- a little more heavy and a little less poppy.

He's a very respected musician and much in demand sessions player. I have almost all of his solo albums.

The Bekka And Billy album is not only a great country album, it's a great album in general. Bekka's vocals are superb, particularly her backing vocals on Heart To Call Home. Billy doesn't get nearly enough credit for his abilities as an artist and a songwriter. He's always been able to fit himself into different music genres seamlessly and with authenticity.

I have mixed feelings about this whole period. I liked most of Time. Christine delivered, on a song-by-song basis, better material than on BTM, and she did make an effort to appear on Bekka and Billy's (very subtly in his case, but I can hear her here and there in the mix). Mason is just out of place, like the previous Dave, but Mick's These Strange Times captures the confusion of the era perfectly. So taken in its entirety, the album makes a passable case for a change of direction after yet another personnel change, with a heavyweight holdover from the previous regime taking on the burdern of carrying the torch (think Danny Kirwan on Future Games).

I would have to concede that the newcomers do not deliver material that stands comparison with Chris and Bob Welch's contributions to FG, so the comparison falls down a little. I do think Billy's songs are much better than his BTM songs, however.

The main problem is the fact that there was a studio entity and a touring Mac. I don't blame Chris at all for not touring. They never played in the UK during this period, so I never saw them live, but I wonder if I would have been able to summon up the emotional belief to buy into their performance. Out of loyalty and curiosity I would probably have gone, but the performances I've seen on youtube lack a certain chemistry and I'm kind of glad I never had the chance. With Chris it would have made some sort of sense and they might have got away with it, but Billy, as the sole front-line survivor from the BTM front line didn't or couldn't make enough of a stamp musically to justify them carrying on. Although Mick and John were there, there wasn't enough of the musical blood-line carrying on to to hook in the punters.

One thing I just thought of regarding Mick's comments on this time in the new book is that he basically says due to the fighting with Mason/Bekka etc. he couldn't keep this going. So how come fighting was tolerated for Rumours etc. but not this?

John

I think it came down to money (or rather the lack of it) and artistic failure, don't you? I just wish that Rick had stayed and Billy had left permanently instead. No Mason/Bramlett incarnation, but maybe, just maybe we could have had a Rick/Chris/John/Mick blues combo touring smaller venues for a couple of years or so. That would really have worked, and people would have bought into the idea. Congratulations, John on your imminent 2000th post!

Mike (Scarrott)

1. Mick, John, and Christine were still dealing with the lawsuit over who owned the name Fleetwood Mac during Rumours.

2. The band had finally broken through and were touring behind a hit album when the personal relationships fell apart. They were able to use that as creative inspiration.

3. There's a big difference between couples breaking up and two people who don't like each other. Neither is pleasant, but the couples were able to maintain professional relationships.

4. Lindsey Buckingham was back in the picture by that point. A Buckingham-Fleetwood tour would have been more respectable than a Fleetwood Mac tour that didn't feature any of the Rumours singers while still relying heavily on that material.

Probably. The fact is they never toured in support of that album, so we'll never really know what potential it had, if any. Given the weak sales numbers of the solo albums by Stevie and Lindsey, I doubt it would have done a lot better.

The problem with that is Christine had retired from touring by that point. I wish Rick and Billy had both stayed and the band still brought Bekka on board.

The problem with the whole era, starting with the Tango tour, is that they were too subservient to the Rumours legacy, which was understandable, but not something that they had done during the previous personnel changes. They didn't do any Peter Green songs on the Kiln House tour, for example. As a result, the new members were allowed to develop their own identities within the context of Fleetwood Mac.

Thanks Mike, didn't even notice. here it is I guess! :)

John

I was on a roller coaster excursion at Six Flags in California and was surprised to see that Fleetwood Mac was performing there, later that day,along with REO Speedwagon and Pat Benatar. I was both elated and skeptical.

I knew that Stevie, Lindsey and Christine were gone, and felt crestfallen that their status was now at level where they were performing shows at an amusement park with two somewhat has-beens from the 1980s. The only saving grace was that they were the headliners.

The show was fine for what it was. But it was a little disconcerting when they performed classic Fleetwood Mac songs. Most of the audience was likely very confused and not informed about drastic line up change. Only a fraction of the venue was filled, and I saw people walking out during the show. It was sad. I recall feeling so worried about what kind of future was in store for the band.

I can't recall, but I thought I already had the Time album when I saw this show. But I've seen some posts saying that the album didn't come out until after their tour.

It was released Oct. 10, 1995. There was BTM with Billy and "Shakin' The Cage" by the Zoo with Bekka.

Wasn't until Welch got in the band did they start adding Peter's tunes again. (and even Danny took a shot at singing "Black Magic Woman" for a while...that was pretty cool; he did a great job with it.)

It really WASN'T "drastic", the changes happened over the course of about 8 years...it wasn't their fault if you (the euphemistic "you", not "you" in particular) didn't "keep up". I saw them almost a year to the day before the Time album came out...(T-shirts & posters were promoting the "upcoming album Another Link In The Chain")...they were great! (even a guest appearance by Bekka's mom, Bonnie) It was a bit weird seeing Dave Mason with them...but I figured that would be the case, since it was their first (and what turned out to be, only) tour with this lineup. Knowing that they would have to play a few of the Rumours hits, I was really looking forward to hearing what this lineup would come up on their own.

What has really surprised me is that the show I saw was broadcast in its entirety on then radio station KLSX-FM, yet I've never seen a recording of the show in bootleg trading circles. Did nobody at the radio station hit the "record" button? :shrug:


I believe the last tour date was in September of '95...but the website I normally go to "fact check" myself on FMac tour related things isn't in biz anymore.

That is very true. Got to give him big props for his talent.

Most people who go to Six Flags were there for the amusements and rides -- and not expecting or intending to see Fleetwood Mac there. I know I wasn't!

Many of the attendees who went to the show, did so on a whim, with little knowledge of the band's history and the various configurations and changes in the group.

I assume they expected to see the most famous incarnation of the band, and its most identifiable members: Stevie, Lindsey and Christine. For them, it certainly was DRASTIC (capitalized, italicized and bolded for dramatic emphasis, I guess! lol)

Seriously? Who in their right mind would see a band playing at a Theme Park and expect it to be everybody who made the band one of the largest in the world? That's just foolish.

Nobody expects to see The Beach Boys, Herman's Hermits, The Turtles, Three Dog Night, or name any band of the '60s or '70s, and have it be any more than MAYBE the lead singer and a hired gun group backing them.

So, why would anyone think that seeing "Fleetwood Mac" at a Theme Park of any corporate ownership would be any more than Mick Fleetwood and John McVie, the band's namesakes, and people of varying degrees of fame elsewhere fronting the band?

Maybe I'm jaded, but I'd NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS ever expect that a famous band playing at a [insert one] a) Theme Park, b) County Fair, c) State Fair, to be the complete group that made the band famous. It's weird enough that someone like Bob Dylan plays those venues on a regular basis.

I ultimately agree with your point. Let's face it, there aren't too many bands as famous as Fleetwood Mac, where most of the people who make up the classic line-up are famous in their own right. BUT, I do think people expect to see at least one of the singers that made a band famous. REO Speedwagon does it. The Bangles have everybody but Michael Steele and do it.

Most people probably at least expected Christine or Lindsey to be there. If they weren't paying attention to what was going on in music, they likely missed Lindsey quit, far less knew that Billy had been with them for eight years (which is telling).

As I've said many times before, the fact that there was no album out made the lack of originals easier to deal with, but that package tour was just a bad idea all around. Opening for CSN was okay, especially given the connection between Dave (and even Bonnie Bramlett) and CSN. The ideal would have been to do a club tour and play mostly new songs from BTM and "Time," with a sprinkling of Mason and Mac classics.

My post was apparently misunderstood. A large portion of people in attendance at the park were likely not that informed about Fleetwood Mac and the changes in the band. They would likely only be aware of the most famous members of the band. Give me break. There is nothing foolish about. Beyond our myopic grand visions of the band, there exists a large population of people who aren't ardent followers. Seriously! Not acutely in touch with the band's evolustion, it is certain that many expected the line up they were most familiar with. I was there - I witnessed the confused reactions. Yes, this was an amusement park , with a large demographic of families and children; only a slightest fraction of attendees would have knowledge of the band's latest incarnation. The Time era was, indisputably, the most obscure transitional period in their history.

How was the show marketed at the park? Were there posters with the new-line up with their names added advertising the gig? It might have been a bit misleading otherwise to the casual, unknowing punter. But no-one surely could have expected the Rumours five, or even four of them.

I wondered who the folks who turned up at the 1993 Superbowl pre-show were expecting, particularly after the Clinton innauguation ball. That was after all, the one occasion when Chris played live with the band post- 1974 without either Stevie or Lindsey.

That Great America show was my first-ever Fleetwood Mac show. When that lineup broke up a few months later, I figured for a while it'd be my *only* one!

Anyway, I remember it was advertised in the newspaper in a small box in the corner, in between Pat Benatar and REO Speedwagon, but no mention of who was in the band at that point. (I really only knew because of newsgroups and such back then.) At the park, there was a poster with an updated shot of the touring lineup (minus Steve Thoma) outside the amphitheater entrance, but no names at all. A couple people in front of us in line were lamenting the fact that FM had "no originals" at that point (Mick and John notwithstanding), but they did go in anyway...

In hindsight, it was a fun show, if not ground-breaking. FM was the middle act, after Pat Benatar (who was great), and we left a few songs into REO. Having seen the BN-based lineup three times, I can see what people realized they were missing, but I still think Billy's GYOW ranks up there with Lindsey's modern-day version (guitar solo aside).

(I'm going back a little bit in the thread, I know, but hadn't read it until now.)

A few reasons, I'm guessing. If Billy had been comfortable as a lead guitarist, I assume they would have hired him in that capacity in the first place, not both him and Rick...so they still needed a separate lead guitarist alongside him. As to why they kept Dave instead of trying to coax Rick back, etc. ... Mick and Dave were tight, and Mick sold him on being a member of the band, so he probably didn't want to back away from his decision. And it probably didn't hurt Dave's cause that he was the most widely known singer/songwriter in the band, aside from Christine.

All that said, obviously it wasn't the *right* choice. I never saw the chemistry and camaraderie with Billy and Dave that I saw with Billy and Rick. (Maybe it's because they were both the "new guys" at the same time...) Dave and Billy seemed to co-exist more than collaborate, on stage and in studio. I'm not surprised Mick hit "detonate" on that lineup as soon as it was clear Time was going nowhere...