best song by Jeremy
 

I haven't heard all of his songs yet, but so I think Cool Breeze is the best.

Hi rhiannon16!

I just had to post to this since I am a long time fan of Jeremy.

I read something on one of the other threads about someone saying that they thought that Peter's songs on "In the Skies" sounded like it fit on the Rumours album.

I suggest that Jeremy's "Travelin' could have been on that or the White album, and you would never guess that it wasn't made to be there.

Did you get Jeremy's "Red Sky Blues" off his website?

Doc

To me, the entire 2nd side of the Jeremy Spencer Band "Flee" album sounds like the Rumours incarnation.

"Flee" sounds like it could be a Christine McVie song
"Cool Breeze" is the "Stevie" song
"You've Got The Right" is Jeremy's Monday Morning/Second Hand News
"Travelling" definitely has a Lindsey feel to it, too.

Knowing of Jeremy's penchant for mimic & parody, I have this theory that Jeremy INTENTIONALLY made side 2 to sound like the then current Fleetwood Mac incarnation. AND, that side one was his majorly tongue-in-cheek parody of the then happening disco sound.

After not listening to his Jeremy Spencer & The Children album for quite a while, I've been listening to it fairly frequently since I acquired the mp3s of it and burned it onto a CD-R. Despite the religious lyrical content (which don't seem nearly as "over the top" now as they did in 1972), the SOUND of the album is really great...he borrows heavily from the Beatles, CSNY, Jefferson Starship, early Doobie Bros, and the Bare Trees era FMac sound throughout. My two fave songs on it are "Can You Hear The Song?" & "War Horse". My only major complaint is that the production is a bit muffled.

As for his live material from either 1995 or 1998, I love "Bend In The Road" and "You Don't Have To Be Black To Be Blue"...plus, anyone who can nail the opening riff of "Johnny B. Goode" on SLIDE guitar, gets two-thumbs-up from me!

Of his Fleetwood Mac material, my faves are:
Shake Your Moneymaker
Allow Me One More Show
This Is The Rock
Coming Home
Dr. Brown
Buddy's Song
Blood On The Floor
Got To Move
Hellhound On My Trail (or the alternate lyric version "You're So Evil" on the Blue Horizon Sessions box)
Madison Blues
Mighty Cold (from the Vaudeville Years set)
Purple Dancer (well, he wrote HALF of it)

Hey this is great ChilliD!

I think that you are right about the "Flee" album. But I think that it was Ahmet Ertegun's (The president of Atlantic Records) suggestion to come up with something to sound like FM, in order to capitalize on the success that they were having.

But I do think that if some of that stuff was on one of the FM albums, people would have said "Oh yeah, I remember that part of Fleetwood Mac, cool, great song"!

As far as disco, I couldn't comment on that.

Jeremy told me that he never personally referred to what he did as parody. He said that was a term that critics or reviewers used. He said that he played that Rock and Roll music out of a love and respect for it.

He said that he had to kind of "ham it up" to make it more well recieved by the audience. Because he didn't feel that just playing the songs was enough.

I doubt if any musician starts out not playing the music of their favorite artist, and trying to "nail it" perfectly. Jeremy just happened to be so good at it, that he was able to take it to a professional level.

As far as Elmore James, he said yes, he was trying to sound like him. But I think that it was probably about the same as the way he did the Rock and Roll. He had the ability to do it, and he was living the blues. I have yet to hear anybody else come close to his interpretation.

I agree with you about the "Jeremy Spencer and the Children" album too. Although you may know more about whether he was borrowing from other people than I would. I just kind of hear it as him. I don't think that he was really into many of those other groups that you mention, but perhaps some of the others in the band were.

I'm not all that keen on the 90's live material. I would prefer different songs. I do like the studio recording of "Red Sky Blues". I think that it is as good as anything that he has done.

The "Johnny B Goode" slide. Like Christine said "He was a hell of a slide player, probably better than Elmore James".

As far as your favs. I like your list. I'm surprized to see "Blood on the Floor". A lot of people don't understand where that is coming from. Good show! I'm also surprized not to see "Hi Ho Silver".

I'm not all that crazy about "Purple Dancer", but that's me.

I also would add to the Rock and Roll stuff: "Tiger" and "Hi Ho Silver".

For the blues I also love: "Baby Please Set A Date", "Mean Mistreatin' Mama" and "Stranger Blues". Oh, and "Can't Afford To Do It".

You don't say which "Got to Move" that is your fav. Is it the one from the Dog and Dustbin album, or the live version?

There is some stuff that I don't particularly care for: That Do-wop thing and some live Rock and Roll stuff. But other than that I like most everything he has done.

I'd love to create a set list and take him on a blues circuit tour!!!

Doc

"Knowing of Jeremy's penchant for mimic & parody, I have this theory that Jeremy INTENTIONALLY made side 2 to sound like the then current Fleetwood Mac incarnation. AND, that side one was his majorly tongue-in-cheek parody of the then happening disco sound."

I will never appreciate Spencer I don't think because I keep getting this kind of making fun of things from his music. It just makes me itchy or something. I know he created original things in a way but they are like showing off how anyone can do what (fill in the blank) does. There doesn't seem to be a Spencer sound I can distinguish like I can Kirwan or Green or Welch or McVie/Perfect, or for that matter Clapton and Page. All I hear are Spencer's source inspiration be it Burnette, Holly, James, or anything else. It prevents me from actually enjoying it because it is way too self conscious about being an imitation of something and someone else. Maybe some day I will hear what to me is an original Spencer song, who knows. Mostly I put something of his on and it's dissatisfying, I just want to run and put the original thing being mimicked on. His works don't even make me appreciate the sources more but do kind of diminish them, like that Buddy Holly medley sort of a thing throwing in all Holly's little trademarks in one tune and overdoing it, making you aware of the limitations of it.

Shake your moneymaker.
there are probablt loads more, but I'm not really sure what songs he's written.

Well Mac Fan, Jeremy didn't write "Shake Your Moneymaker", Elmore James did.

But Jeremy did write some songs based on Elmore's style. "My Heart Beat Like A Hammer", "I've Lost My Baby", and "I Need Your Love Tonight".

He also wrote a nice acoustical blues number called "Allow Me One More Show".

He wrote almost all of the tracks on his solo album and some good rock and roll songs like "This is the Rock" and "Buddy's Song".

He also wrote a nice acoustical rock song called "One Together".

His most current "Red Sky Blues" is based upon a story related by the wife of the founder of the "Children of God".

There are more but this is a good start.

Doc

I know, I found that out earlier today.

Ya know...Jeremy's...uh, well...FMac's version...of "Shake Your Money Maker", to me, is even better than Elmore's original...and FAR & AWAY better than the version the Butterfield Blues Band did on their first album.

I'm with ya there ChilliD!


Doc

I guess This Is the Rock is more original besides being a send up of Elvis. Had it been an Elvis record it might have been a minor hit. I remember this one song that was Look Back In Love Not In Anger commenting on Bowie's Look Back In Anger and actually enjoyed it for it's own qualities and more than the source, so guess it can happen. I put on Shake Your Money Maker, and maybe it builds on the original ever so slightly, or he had better recording facilities, but I don't feel anything original really is brought to it, it's a cover tune done well as he did do everything as well as it probably can be technically, but I miss the original expression in it I do feel and hear in Green or Page. They bring the material alive while some are more focused on recreating something from the past which spencer has said was his mindset in opposition to the music going on at the time. Not like it's a science to dissect these things but Spencer was seen by FM itself as a side act for various reasons; he wouldn't play on other people's featured tracks, and so he had a solo release with the band while still sort of a member and was left off Then Play On. In the end people appreciate different qualities, and I am curious to hear the later recordings that may be more original or copying some other styles.

I enjoy My Heart Beat like a Hammer in with a mix of Green and Kirwan.

Hi becca!

I'm not sure how long it is that you have been a fan of Fleetwood Mac, and I understand how you might come to these conclusions looking back in retrospect, with the total picture that we have today.

But at the time, Jeremy was not percieved the way you see it. Even Peter Green thought that he was great, that's why he wanted him in the band.

At the live shows, more people related to Jeremy than they did to Peter. He was fun, he was a rocker, and he was damn good.
Remember this was 1968.

To tell the truth, back then, and even today, some people give Peter credit for Jeremy's work. In Bill Wyman's book, he talks about the Elmore James slide playing in Fleetwood Mac and how great it was, but I don't think that HE knows that it was Jeremy Spencer not Peter Green who was playing it. The only name mentioned is Peter's.

Elmore James was the rage at that time, and neither Green, nor Clapton, nor, Page, nor anyone else could hit that mark the way that Spencer did. Canned Heat did a respectable job, and later Johnny Winter, but at the time Spencer was king.

If you look on the first two albums, it is not clear which member is which. Their names are not printed directly under their pictures, and even I, back then thought that Jeremy was Peter Green because he was standing seperate from the group in the photo, and this was Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac. So it seemed logical that the person seperated from the rest was Peter Green.

And when you saw them live, you just naturally thought that the one who seemed to have the most stage presence, was Peter Green. But it was Jeremy Spencer.

Back on track~ With what we had when the first two US albums came out. There was no thought of redundancy or narrowness of focus. Even up to the time that Kiln House came out, our perceptions were what we had on record. What we saw at live shows was soon digested, but you always had what was on record.

Today with what we have on "Show Biz Blues" and "The Vaudeville Years" ON RECORD, paints a different picture of the total makeup of the band at that time, than we actually had. Those were singular performances and would have only been seen by the people in attendance.

I have to disagree with your take on "Shake Your Moneymaker". Music is like visual art. It generates a certain feeling when looking at it or listening to it. When I play Jeremy's version back to back with Elmore's, the difference is like looking at a Currier and Ives painting and then Andy Warhol. Totaly different sensations.

And at the time when Kiln House came out, there was a huge trend toward a 50's music revival. People wanted to hear covers and that style of music. So it's not really fair to criticize Jeremy for playing it. He was not the only one relating to that music, everyone was. It was what the public wanted.

And to be honest, I can't see what all the fuss is about trying to pigeon hole Jeremy about playing Elmore James or rock and roll. What is the difference between him doing what he did and Peter playing B.B. King or Otis Rush. Or Clapton playing Muddy Waters or Robert Johnson. I mean none of these guys were creating a new form of music, they were putting their spin on what THEIR heroes had done. It was like that then and always will be.

There is so much to say on these subjects that I have trouble sequencing it properly, but I'll try to get it out eventually and hopefully make some sence.

Doc

Or, in the early days of the Rolling Stones, Keith Richards and his Chuck Berry clonishness.

Ahhh, yes, but the OFFICIAL band name was Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac Featuring Jeremy Spencer ;) ;) :)

That's true ChilliD, but that name was dropped by the time that we got the album, and I didn't have access to what had come before. But that name alone speaks volumes in terms of Jeremy's role.

Kieth Richards is a very good example of the evolutionary process that was taking place. And I've rarely heard him criticized for it. It was all a matter of taste.

Elvis was considered to be the king of rock and roll, and I think that there is merit to that statement.

Chuck Berry and Little Richard had some hit records but did not recieve the recognition that Elvis did.

I do not believe that because Elvis didn't write the songs or really play an instrument, takes away from his greatness.

When he first came out his singing alone was enough to give him his title. It wasn't until he became commercialized and went to RCA that his creativness began to decline.

His first recordings were as raw as any of those other artists. He was emulating Arthur Crudup and other Delta blues singers that he liked. So he did the same thing that Green, Clapton and Spencer did, but he did it first. Then he took some of Little Richards songs and did a damn good job on them.

The artists at Sun Records or anywhere else for that matter, had no idea that Little Richard or Chuck Berry would have any more chance of coming out of obscurity than Arthur Crudup or any of the other blues artists at the time.

So for Elvis to cover that stuff was really the beginning of breaking down the racial barrier that was firmly intrenched in music and in society in general at that time. And further advancment would not come until the early 60's. This was 1955.

Of course Little Richard never saw it that way, but Chuck Berry was a little smarter.

Chuck Berry has said that he emulated Louis Jordan and some others. Little Richard also had his mentors who influenced him.

Chuck Berry, Elmore James, B.B. King, Muddy Waters, Elvis. What's the difference, it's all a matter of taste and hopefully a knowledge of what really happened. Not just picking up bits and pieces here and there and telling yourself you know the story. That lack of knowledge is what leads people not to understand what is really behind something. Of course we all arent going to persue things to quite the same level.

That is a general statement and not directed at anyone personally.

So for Jeremy to have Elvis as his mentor is not surprizing, I felt the same way. He was actually lucky to have found Elmore when he did, and to have had the style mastered when it was the current rage.

The problem with the Elvis thing was that the music business had just gone through a whole period of Elvis wanna be's and sound alikes and it was becoming a little tired for all but the most adamant fans.

So what happened, the trend shifted from Elvis to Chuck Berry and proliferated with Kieth Richard to Bob Seger and others.

It's all a matter of taste, but none of it's new.


Doc

Well, even Peter Green had his "Clapton phase" when he first joined the Bluesbreakers (it is TOUGH to tell that it is NOT Clapton playing "The Stumble" on Mayall's Hard Road album)...he hit his own stride when he penned "The Supernatural", then once he formed Fleetwood Mac, you can hear his BB King style come out in full blossom (specifically on "A Fool No More" & "Love That Burns")

So, basically, the original Fleetwood Mac sound was "BB King" with Peter, "Elmore James" with Jeremy. I don't think Jeremy started into the 50's covers/parodies (I use the term "parodies" only for lack of a better description) until after Danny joined, though...am I right about that, Dr Brown?

You're definately right about the B.B King/Elmore James thing.

Danny made his debut with the band in August of 1968.

There was a session that was broadcast on Top Gear that aired in January where "Don't Be Cruel" was played. And then some others in April.

So from August 1967 when they played the Windsor Jazz and Blues Festival, to January of 1968 would make it five months from when they started playing professionally to when we actually have documented proof of when he began to play that stuff. Then Danny came along seven months later.

It's hard to imagine that all of this took place within such a short period of time.


Doc

It's going to be a personal preference situation mostly. I just haven't heard Spencer develop in the way Richards or others mentioned did. His innovation or originality that I am aware of often seem to take the form of consciously overdoing certain aspects (subjective judgement) and effects my enjoyment. At the time Then Play On was around he didn't even appear on that Fleetwood Mac album at all though his photo is on it. That is the album I was first exposed to in 1970. Going by that it seems he was a very seperate side attraction; a specialist of slide. After Green left he was pressed into service to fill the Kiln House album, which most will admit is about the most offbeat and uneven assortment FM ever produced. Spencer's songs for it all are backward looking, and in terms of the group's progression they offer dead ends. I can only take your word there was an oldies but goodies revival happening in particular that year more than other years. I know there was a big revival in Paris Art Nouveau posters at that moment in pop culture history, and in silent films. Spencer is a curious footnote in terms of the group's development is what I recon looking back over it; not someone who could lead, or even contribute to the other members' creative work. I don't know, did he ever perform on any songs not featuring him or initaited by himself to cater to showing off his two talents? I understood that to be the case. If you take just those songs and put them all together I see a curiosity mostly, a side attraction. I don't see Fleetwood Mac just FM as his backing band. I think Kirwan and Christine McVie got it right about the blues and moved on and helped move the group forward. I very much enjoyed Dave Walker's material on Penguin but it also was backward looking to some extent as well. I don't think it was intended to be as limited as what Spencer did. His strengths became major weaknesses, and just as they are what interest you they are what leaves me dissatisfied, as he seemed to pander to it almost and showed no interest in what was happening then, cureent music, even among the great fellow musicians he was around and had access to. Anyone who would refuse to play with Green or Kirwan on Green and Kirwan songs I probably will never understand. As I say I am curious to hear any later works of his which are not strictly meant to imitate or exaggerate on someone else's music or style. It's a shame his technical ability was only put to his own uses for it and not available to the others in the group. I think he could have learned a lot and grown, just as Clapton always did through his various groups, instead of closing off and being that aloof seperate act always looking backward and recreating.

I am glad he had his moment of fame in 1968-70 being associated with FM, but looking back it is the one part that didn't grow or lead or contribute. Maybe the others were just that much more creative and original to me that many would have trouble holding their own in comparison I don't know. I can imagine the slide guitar work was exciting and influential for awhile, and would agree he be counted as one the greatest technicans. I tend to value punk rock though when many despise it as counter to technical skill, but the feeling is authentic and immediate like a lot of blues music, and not having seen Spencer live all I can say is I just don't get those qualities too often from his recordings I've heard so far.

Thanks for the sounding board, sorry my position is probably a negative one in a lot of ways. I've read people who think Christine McVie or Bob Welch are trivial talents and it seems ignorant, so I hope I don't seem to say Spencer is entirely trivial or not talented.

Hi becca!

This is the third time I've sat down to address your post. There's a lot here. But you raise some good points for which I will try to give my point of view.

First, as far as Jeremy devoloping, we have to look at the time factor. Everything that he did was within about a three year time frame. He was brought in to play Elmore James and rock and roll, which he did. I've never heard anyone say that they thought that Elmore James should PROGRESS. Playing slide-guitar is kind of a narrow field.

I have a theory that, at whatever stage a person begins listening to FM, that becomes their mental vision of who FM were. So for you to have been drawn to the stuff that was on "Then Play On", it would make sense that you would see Jeremy as a side attraction because he sat that one out and the previous stuff was so much different. Jeremy's picture was on the album cover because he was still in the band.

As far as consciously overdoing certain aspects. That is subjective. It's a double edge sword. If you take the first album, I don't think there is anything redundant there. When they did "Mr. Wonderful", I believe that there was some conscious repitition. I haven't gotten a good answer from Jeremy on this yet but, I think that he and Mike Vernon really thought that they had something with that "Dust My Broom" thing. And they thought that all they had to do was to come up with the right lyrics, and they would have a hit.

Back then you could take "Johnny B Goode" and put new lyrics to it and have a hit. So this is why I believe that you have so many similiar sounding tracks. I think that they were shooting for a hit single. And really the way that they were sequenced on the albums, it was just more of "that sound", and didn't sound like the same thing over and over.

I don't think that "Kiln House" is offbeat and uneven. When you say "backward looking" I assume that you mean retro. That is what it was designed to be, and really was not that much different than what you would have seen at a live show. Peter Green was not there, but Danny Kirwan filled in nicely with tunes like "Station Man" and "Tell Me All The Things You Do". Compare the material to the "Vaudeville Years". Same type of stuff.

He had a good song on that album called "One Together". I think that if he were to have stayed with the band and grown or progressed, it would have been in this direction. It was on parallel with Neil Young and some other artists of that time.

You didn't think that Jeremy was one who could lead. He did in fact lead, his own group, and he, and Peter, and Danny, did the same thing in FM. They were all "Front Men". Who lead their particular material.

As far as contributing, well he did contribute to other people's material on "Kiln House" and on "Purple Dancer". What was great was when Peter contributed to his stuff. Like on tunes like "Tiger". The infusion of Peter's guitar on this type of thing was what took that stuff to a new level.

Peter and Jeremy playing together was great. Jeremy felt that he was continuing to be well recieved on stage, so why change. Peter felt that if they were going to move forward, he would have to take the music in a different direction. This is when they grew apart.

Peter says that he didn't want to be the leader and have all the responsibility fall on his shoulders, but HE was calling the shots, and told Danny that he could have half of the next album. Thats why Jeremy didn't play on "Then Play On".

Jeremy wanted to move forward and away from the blues, but didn't know where to go. He said that he really tried to relate to where Peter's music was going and to some of the other music of that day, but he just couldn't get into it. I can understand this.

Yes, Jeremy's strengths became his weaknesses. Which was basically that he played blues and rock and roll. Like anything else it only goes so far.

I do think that he could do as well today as a touring blues act, as the rest of them. If he would play the things, that he knows it would take, for him to be successful.

Maybe you will hear his "Red Sky Blues". If you like blues at all you can't help but like it.

When Dave Walker came onboard, that band was lost. They didn't know what to do except to keep playing music. And it was OK. But they moved on pretty quickly.

I don't think Christine McVie or Bob Welch are trivial talents at all.

Thanks for keeping an open mind in discussing this.

Doc

Peter has said that he was wanting Jeremy to just jump in to contribute to his tunes, but he didn't. Jeremy even admits in his Q&A here, that he was lazy & uninspired to grow. Hence the need to look elsewhere, so in comes Danny K. Personally, I think that was the best move they could've done.

It is kind of a shame that Danny's health took a downward turn, he was just seemingly hitting his stride. Just look at his contributions in a five year span (not a complete list, just my thoughts on his BEST):

Jigsaw Puzzle Blues
One Sunny Day
Without You
Like It This Way
Something Inside Of Me
Although The Sun Is Shining
Station Man
Tell Me All The Things You Do
Woman Of A 1000 Years
Sands Of Time
Child Of Mine
Sunny Side Of Heaven
Dust

Not too shabby...that COULD be a great Fleetwood Mac anthology all on its own. :nod:

Oh I could add to your Danny list ChilliD. I like almost everything that Danny did.

Jewel Eyed Judy
Blues with a Feeling
Sometimes
Bare Trees
Coming Your Way

I also think that bringing Danny in was the best thing that they could have done.

I thought that he had kind of gotten full of himself and had thrown a tantrum, and had left the band before any kind of health concerns though.

What you say about Peter and Jeremy kind of condenses what happened. I was trying to bring out points that led up to that.

It's true, Jeremy did not want to learn that stuff and was content with playing the Elmore James and Rock and Roll.

But I think that there was a tug of war going on, and that Peter had things backwards to subconciously prove himself superior. He knew that wasn't Jeremy's forte. He was the accomplished musician and should have jumped in on Jeremy's stuff instead of insisting it be the other way around. If he wanted to do something for the good of the group. It would have been better to strenghen one of Jeremy's tunes, rather than to possibily weaken one of his.

When he did that, he infused psychedelic
with Rock and Roll which was great.

Personalities, that's just how people are.

Doc

Like you (at least I THINK it was in one of your posts) said in some other post...Jeremy had been saying that having both Peter AND Danny playing rhythm behind him was redundant, but that's exactly what gave Fleetwood Mac "that" sound. So, it really wasn't that Peter wasn't trying to "jump in" on Jeremy's stuff, he was right there driving the rhythms. I think alot of what Peter was talking about was that he'd hear Jeremy just playing this wonderful stuff on piano, but wouldn't bring any of that to the Fleetwood Mac table...or wouldn't play piano behind his tunes (which is why they brought in Ms. Perfect on the few tunes she played on).


Oh, sure...I could've listed ALL of Danny's contributions to Fleetwood Mac (well, except for "When You Say" ;) ) as examples! :nod: I just picked out those as examples. He was definitely on a prolific streak there. Even the couple of outtakes I've heard (for example, "Trinity") was equally good as the tunes released.

From the way Mick's bio reads, the health problems led to the final tantrum...it was kind of brewing for some time (from the time Peter left, he claims). From the way Mick tells it, it was the opposite...he was getting more & more insecure, rather than being full of himself.

Plus, from reading the liner notes to the Vaudeville Years collection, Peter & Danny, for all the collaboration they seemed to do, weren't exactly close, either. Just a band of misfits who made good music, it seems. :laugh:

Interesting reads you guys!!
 

This thread is so cool to read because of the background info on Danny, Peter, Bob, Jeremy...etc. Stuff I didn't know about!! Wasn't Danny shy, an introvert and had a hard time connecting with people, hence he and Peter (or anyone) not being close? Didn't Christine also (Maybe Bob Welch too) say somewhere I read that she never could talk to Danny or "connect" with him, he was very withdrawn? He never wrote/collaborated on any songs with anyone but Peter, did he?

Geez, what I wouldn't give to see a concert with Lindsey and Danny together....sigh...oh well :shrug:

At least I have my DK tapes (and record) John made me and I am looking into getting Ram Jam City...and ebay can help me in my search for more Danny records! :nod: Dang, the net can be so EVIL and GREAT at the same time!! :laugh:

Along with the three year time span it's probably a good thing to think about how incredibly young these guys were. All three guitarists are really amazing in the skill level they were at and Danny was famous for how quickly he progressed. I guess nobody gets on Itzhak Perlman's case for playing all that old fashioned Mozart and Beethoven stuff right? :^)

I didn't know that One Together was written by Spencer actually, it's different and not drawing off something else specific so I guess I didn't think it would be his. A friend had the LP but I only have the CD which doesn't give info on every song's writer. I do like that song a lot, it's pretty cool and mellow. Blue Rodeo's Five Days In July album is the closest thing to it I can think of.

I thought Christine contributed to When You Say. There was a version with her singing and one with Danny singing. I think she plays keyboards on both of them. She did say Danny was hard to get to know, which describes a lot of other artists. They sounded nice together on Dust. It's probably impossible for most creative people spending any time together to not contribute to each others work though. If a lot is contributed they will share credit, if it's a minor touch or something they don't. It's like some of the Wailers musicians and background singers I know did contribute some innovative reggae stylings to some of the music officially credited only to Bob Marley. Christine isn't co-credited on any Kirwan songs I know of though.

Well, I know Jeremy's one of the best slide guitarists
around, but I've always liked his piano songs too.

I especially like the version of
"You Don't Know What You're Missing"
on Live at the BBC.

For guitar - go with "Shake Your Moneymaker"
it rocks!

Re: Interesting reads you guys!!
 

I have a Goldmine interview with Christine from about 10 years ago. She mentioned that while Danny was very talented, he was also very neurotic and very nerve-wracking to be around. She said he would never look you straight in the eye. She also said that they had never worked together at all. I think Bob Welch also mentioned in his Q & A here that Danny was just too sensitive to be a rock star. He just never had the personality or temperament for it.

I think it's a shame. I think Danny had just a beautiful singing voice-very soulful, fragile even.

This is a great conversation. So many things being brought out. I certainly respect everyone’s opinions, and appreciate your knowledge.

No, that wasn’t one of my posts ChilliD. I think that came from Jeremy’s Q & A. Jeremy doesn’t like chats or Q & A’s. He doesn't feel that he does well with them. I can relate to that. At least on here I can go back and edit, and not be held to each statement down to the letter. So I’m sure that some of the things quoted are generally accurate. But I think that if he had the chance, he might go back and say them a little differently, and maybe omit some verbiage.

Yes, Jeremy said that having Danny playing in addition to Peter on the Elmore James numbers was overkill, and he was probably right about those particular songs.

Do you see the difference that I’m talking about as far as Peter being behind Jeremy and driving the rhythms, as to what Peter did with the lead parts on “Tiger”?

As far as the piano stuff goes, it’s a little unclear. Jeremy used to do a lot of things at home and record them. He said that people would come over and say “don’t you want that stuff to go out”?. I don’t know if he was referring to piano or guitar or what, that they thought he should be presenting to the band for consideration.

I have been under the impression that Jeremy’s piano playing didn’t meet Peter’s expectations. Jeremy’s style of playing is more like that of Jerry Lee Lewis. It’s good for the rock stuff and bits can be overdubbed on some blues tracks, but it’s not like being an accomplished pianist who reads and plays and has years of formal training.

I thought that they did a great job with that combination on “Sweet Home Chicago”. So Jeremy could do that type of thing. But I don’t think that he could have created the ambience that Christine did on numbers like “Love That Burns”.

That becomes pretty apparent when you listen to “Hi Ho Silver” from Kiln House, and then to his solo “Honey Hush” from Live at the BBC. Same song, but Christine’s formal piano training takes it to a higher level.

I’m also not sure of what’s his on “Look Down At My Woman” and “Who's Knockin’”. There are supposed to be some over dubs with Bob Hall, who of course plays piano.

I’ve heard you say a couple of times that you didn’t care for “When You Say”. I like it! HaHa. I thought that it fit in nicely on “Then Play On”. Chris did do that one as well, perhaps it was more suited for a woman. “Trinity” is not my favorite Danny tune, but it still shows his good qualities.

Danny was a shy person. You’d almost have to be, to be as young as he was and to be so good on guitar. That meant a lot of time isolated by yourself practicing. I’ve known guys like that, and I’m sure that taking acid and drugs didn’t help with his paranoia.

But I don’t really think of that as health problems. I consider that to be "life", and if you’re shy and it is a concern to you, then you do something to try to overcome it.

But Danny didn’t have to do that. All he had to do was concentrate on his music. And don’t forget, he was Peter Green’s “protege” so to speak, and had to have felt that he commanded some respect. I don’t think that he expected anyone to question his position.

He didn’t get on with Bob Welch at all. I think that he felt challenged by him, and thought that his role was being diminished like had happened with Jeremy. But his behavior had been tolerated or accepted for so long, he was just being Danny. So he was just working and doing what he was supposed to do. Never mind dealing with personal issues.

Danny had perfect pitch and a wonderful ear for playing the guitar.

It will be interesting to hear Blue Horizon’s thoughts on meeting Danny. I think that we are lucky that Danny idolized Peter Green, and was able to come in and play with the ability that he did. Although I have also read some statements that Peter had made about Danny, that I would consider negative. So I guess that they werent what you would call the best of friends.

I’ve also read that Jeremy was the one person that Peter liked very much at the time of his departure from FM. That’s one question that I haven’t gotten answered from the horses mouth, but I will eventually.

Sorry these thoughts are not organized better, I’m just throwing them out as they come to mind.

Doc

just want to clear something for MACFAN 57,
or have a comment on

I've read that comment from Christine also, but I think she
means co-writing songs, they did collaborate on the
single "When You Say", released by Christine Perfect,
which Kirwan was the producer (also played on)

so maybe Christine only meant FM material?

personally, I really like her version, it's very
understated and her vocal is great too,

do you agree?

Yes, I believe Christine was referring to writing songs with Danny. That's what I was trying to say.:) And, yes I also like "When You Say". But, I like Christine's version better than Danny's version on Then Play On. As someone said earlier, I think it works better with a woman singing it than a man.

I also have a question if anyone knows about Christine's piano playing on these early albums. I believe someone mentioned in another post that Jeremy only played on his songs. Did Christine play all of the piano parts on all of Peter Green's songs? I noticed that in the CD booklet for Mr. Wonderful. It says that Jeremy played piano. I know Chris played piano on "Love That Burns". What about "Stop Messin' Around"? Did you she play piano on that song or did Jeremy?

CM piano on Blue Horizon stuff
 

Yes, CM is on SMR. You can hear PG direct her on one of the earlier takes of the song in the "in between song banter" on the "Compete Blue Horizon sessions" box set recordings. :)

Yeah, since they don't say specifically in the CD/vinyl liner notes I've always just assumed that Chris was doing the piano on PG's songs and JS did the piano on his own songs from MW but I guess we'll never know for sure.

I think it was printed somewhere (but of course, I can't remember where now) that from "Black magic woman" onwards (until PG left and then JS did play on others songs on "Kiln house" etc.) in the studio JS only played on his songs so this is why I have assumed what I have but it's hard to tell if it's the right thing to assume as a fan or not. :) At least we know JS w/FM LIVE was a different story, playing shakers on "Rattlesnake shake", "Oh well" etc.

John

Re: CM piano on Blue Horizon stuff
 

:laugh: Ok, John, they're called MARACAS!! ;) :laugh:

Re: Re: CM piano on Blue Horizon stuff
 

Just trynta be cute. :)

John

Re: CM piano on Blue Horizon stuff
 

That's my favorite version of "Stop Messin' 'Round", and my favorite Peter Green lead playing.


Doc

It's been a bit since I played that CD...but I do recall that ONE of those alternate versions of "Stop Messin' Round" really kicked.

When I heard Gary Moore's cover on his Blues For Greeny album, I thought, "what's he doing changing the words?"...then I got the Complete Blue Horizon Sessions box and lo & behold the alternate version was the one that Gary Moore took his from.

I was impressed with the version Fleetwood Mac played during the 1990 tour with Rick Vito handling guitar & vocals. Christine even took a bit of a piano solo in the middle; really high-energy!! Say what you want about Rick replacing Lindsey, but he did a helluva job on those Peter Green tunes he resurrected once he got in the band.

I agree. I loved "Stop Messin' Around" live from the BTM tour. "I Loved Another Woman" was another good one.

I'm not a huge Jeremy fan, but I still like his stuff alot.

I probably wouldn't want to listen to a whole album full of Jeremy but one of my favorite FM albums is the debut and he plays a big role in that album for sure.

Green got the most of my favorite songs on that album but I really love the mix between Greens numbers and Jeremys.

"My Heart Beat Like A Hammer" is my favorite Jeremy song and it's a perfect opener for one of the best debut albums ever.

Going from Jeremys intensive rendition of "Moneymaker" to Greens sparse and soulful "Looking For Somebody" is great.

Same goes with "My Baby's Good to Me" into "I Loved Another Woman"

It's like going on a rollercoaster ride, a fun and emotional ride thanks to both Jeremy and Green.

But with that said of course Green was a much bigger talent than Jeremy and the best songs on that album is by Green, even though "My Heart Beat Like A Hammer" comes close to match some of the Green numbers.

On Mr Wonderful Jeremys started to sound a bit repetitious and without any real standout tracks it got a bit boring and is one reason that Mr Wonderful is a step down quality wise from the debut.

I love the playfulness in Jeremys voice, you can tell he had fun singing and playing these songs.

"MY HAAART BEEAAT LAAAKE AA HAAAMAH"

:):):)


Oh and hello I'm a new fan to the pre 75 FM.
When I thought I couldn't love this band more, I fall in love with this era to.
(Please don't flame me for being a Rumours era fan ;) )

Yikes you have been digging back in the archives to find this thread!

Don't worry we won't flame you for being a Rumours era fan, although we will try hard to correct that failing ;)

ALL-TIME: Without a doubt "Flee" is my favorite. It's one of the great songs of all time.

FLEETWOOD MAC: I'll have to think about my favorite of his Mac songs; "One Together" or "Buddy's Song" are the ones in the running for me. ETA: Only doing originals.

RECENT: I really love "Psychic Waste."

I've fished through the archives, but I never noticed this thread before, yet it's a good one.


You can't go wrong with "Moneymaker". It's Jeremy's raw blues slide playing at it's finest. While I think this is far superior to Butterfield's take, Jerome Arnold (bass player for Butterfield, also played for Howlin' Wolf) plays like a beast during the second half of Butterfield's version.


I don't know if it's been mentioned but "My Heart Beat Like a Hammer" is a BB King tune with a new arrangement.

I like:
Stranger Blues from Boston Tea Party
Linda (with great back-up vocals from Green and Kirwan)
My Baby's Good To Me
This is the Rock
Can't Afford to Do It (I love the off mic back-up vocals, great touch)
Someone's Gonna Get Their Head Kicked In Tonight
I'm Worried (the best of the Elmore James "Dust My Broom" progression tunes)

I was unaware that Spencer did an album with songs that sound like Rumours era FM. I have to check that out.

I held My Hellhound Last Night and now I'm Worried
 

Ahhh - I like his shaved down version of Roberts Johnsons Hellhound On My Trail on Peter Greens Fleetwood Mac and I like his playing and vocals on I Held My Baby Last Night from Blues Jam in Chicago. I have a soft spot for I'm Worried in most versions. He's a great slide player.

Ms Moose

Wow! Talk about reviving a dead thread! Good job, people!