San Bernardino 1971
 

Hello, I am new to The Ledge. I was wondering if anyone has a copy of the San Bernardino March 24, 1971 concert. I cannot seem to get a copy of it and it really looks interesting.
Please email me if you have it.

Thanks,
Bryan

Any live shows between 1970-1974 are kind of the "Holy Grail" around these parts...so, good luck in your search. Should you find someone who has ANY recordings from the post-Peter Green to pre-1974 era, please let us know!

I'll second this. I am looking for ANYTHING from 1970-1974. All I have are 2 Heroes bootlegs. That's it.

I've got those 2 shows from 1974 as well. I can only image how they would sound with Danny Kirwan in picture.

That's 2 more than I have. What's the sound quality like?

The sound quality is great on both bootlegs. They are both soundboard recordings. They aren't actually live shows. They're really studio rehearsals. But they did the songs that they performed in their shows on the Heroes tour.:)

Which were?

Oh yeah, and where can I get one? :D

Here are the set lists for these 2 bootlegs:

Sausalito, CA

1. Green Manalishi
2. Angel
3. Spare Me A Little Of Your Love
4. Sentimental Lady
5. Future Games
6. Bermuda Triangle
7. Why
8. Believe Me
9. Black Magic Woman
10. Oh Well
11. Rattlesnake Shake
12. Hypnotized

Hempstead, NY

1. Green Manalishi
2. Spare Me A Little Of Your Love
3. Sentimental Lady
4. Future Games
5. Bermuda Triangle
6. Why
7. Angel
8. Homeward Bound
9. Rattlesnake Shake
10. Hypnotized
11. Black Magic Woman

I got both of these CDs from a trader who unfortunately is no longer trading. I just recently got a computer and I haven't gotten around just yet to figuring out the CD burner on my computer. I am hoping to getting around to this very soon. If you are in a hurry for any of these CDs, maybe someone else on this board would be willing to burn a CD for you. Most current Fleetwood Mac traders do not have these CDs. Unfortunately, they are mostly fixated on only Buckingham/Nicks stuff. Also, I have seen the Sausalito CD sold on eBay from time to time, but it is quite expensive.:)

Me too.
:laugh:

What's up kids? :D

Bah. :rolleyes:

Screw ebay, for real. I've lost money several times from people on there. NEVER had a good transaction. My brother got burned once too, although he had a couple that went alright. It's just too annonymous and to be honest, I don't trust it one bit. It's the perfect opportunity for assholes across the world to scam some easy cash out of some over-trusting decent people.

Seriously though if you or anybody else is willing to burn me some of this stuff sometime I would more than appreciate it. I (of course) can pay for the CDR's and postage and whatever extra you think would be fair for your trouble.

Eric,
I just figured out how to use the CD burner on my computer. I have made a copy of the Sausalito CD. I haven't played it back in its entirety, but I think I actually did it OK. I haven't tried to copy the second CD yet . If you're still interested, just e-mail me. You can find my e-mail address on the profile page. I don't want to post my e-mail address on a public message board.:)

Eric,
Check your private messages. I just sent you one. Post here if you haven't received it and I'll try again.

Re: San Bernardino 1971
 

Bryan,

If your still around, what was the set list on this concert? It sounded like you had seen it somewhere. Does anyone know if Bob had joined the band at this point? or was Jeremy still in the band?

I saw this thread, and I just wanted to post this. I don't know if any of you know www.sharingthegroove.org but it's a download and trade community that deals with Bit Torrents and FLAC files. I did a search and found this one show from 1968, in San Francisco, soundboard. Not exactly the era being asked about here, but nonetheless, cool. Maybe everyone already has this show, I don't know. I'll post a link to it anyways...

http://www.sharingthegroove.org/msgb...=fleetwood+mac

Sounds like a good show, I haven't heard it though.

Odd that this should come up this week. I just found out about two radio shows this week from the Bare Trees era. If I can get my hands on these, I'll see what I can do to make these available.

Seattle 1972 set list:

1. Tell Me All the Things You Do
2. Future Games
3. Get Like You Used to Be
4. Child of Mine
5. Spare Me a Little
6. Homeward Bound
7. Black Magic Woman
8. Oh Well


Sindelfingen, Germany 1972 set list:

1. Tell Me All the Things You Do
2. Future Games
3. Morning Rain
4. Woman of a Thousand Years
5. Black Magic Woman
6. Get Like You Used to Be
7. Homeward Bound
8. Trinity
9. Child of Mine
10. Oh Well
11. Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On

http://home.att.net/~fleetwood.mac/fm06a.jpg

Stephen, I just PM'd you about Seattle.

Just PM'd you back.

Bare Trees concerts
 

Ryan8472,

Thanks for posting the thread to the 1968 concert in San Fransisco.


SteveMacD,

If you do find out anything about the concerts from Bare Trees era. It would be great know a little about them. Please let us know!

SteveMacD or HomerMcvie or anyone,

If you are able to get these shows, please let us know. I am looking for anything from 1971-1974. If these are radio shows, I assume that the sound quality is very good, similar to the Sausalito & Hempstead boots. What fantastic set lists!!:)

And, if anyone has more jpgs of the Future Games/Bare Trees incarnation (such as more from the series of photo that Steve posted...or ones of larger size...or ones of that incarnation on stage, etc), please email me.

I'm working on a CD graphics project, and am seriously lacking in photos from that era.

Thanks in advance.

Re: San Bernardino 1971
 

Anyone now, if I understand correctly, from one of my sources, Jeremy quit the band in Feb. 1971 and Bob Welch didn't join until Apr. 1971. Am I right in saying that this concert featured the four piece, Danny Kirwan, Christine McVie, Mick Fleetwood & John McVie. I've also heard that Chris roughly became a full fledged member around the time Bob came on board, but maybe a month didn't make much difference and she already was a full member as of March 21, 1971. I've also heard that Peter Green was deputized guitarest after Spencer quit so maybe the line up was, Green, Kirwan, Fleetwood & McVie. Just wondering if someone could clarify this point of the history? Anyway, if this concert does exist, it would really be UNIQUE. Has anyone even remotely heard of its existence?

After Jeremy went AWOL, they got Peter Green (who dragged Nigel Watson along, too) to finish the tour. It wasn't until the tour was over and they got back home did they start trying to find a "permanent replacement" for Jeremy.

EDIT: According to Mick's book, Peter agreed to finish the tour as long as they just jammed and didn't play strictly arranged songs...the entire set SUPPOSEDLY was variations of a theme based on "Black Magic Woman". If the set below is true, it MUST've been before Peter joined them...or we've discovered proof of another discrepancy in Mick's book.

Re: Re: San Bernardino 1971
 

I believe Christine became a full fledged member in August 1970. Her first show with the band was in New Orleans.

I got this set list for the San Bernardino show from a trader's website. She is no longer trading but still has her website. I've tried to e-mail her, but the e-mail address on the website is invalid. She also has the Bare Trees Seattle boot listed too, by the way.

1. Station Man
2. Get Like You Used To Be
3. Dragonfly
4. Purple Dancer
5. I'd Rather Go Blind
6. Tell Me All The Things You Do

I believe this show may be after Jeremy left and before Bob joined and may even include Peter. This would definitely be quite a find if this boot ever turns up.:)

OK everyone. I've got a copy of the San Bernadino show on disc (thought I had it but I just located it last night). Just listened to it again this morning. This was the first show from Peter Green's brief return to the group, when he joined Mick, John, Danny, & Christine to finish up their US tour after Jeremy's sudden departure. Sound quality is quite good overall, I'm guessing the original was from a soundboard recording, or else a very good audience recording.

The track listing is as macfan57 noted. Some off-key harmony singing from Christine on "Station Man"! Mostly pretty straightforward renditions of the songs, except on "Tell Me All The Things You Do" where the band extends the song into a "Madge"-style jam (cut off at the end). That's the only portion where Peter plays any lead guitar, at least as far as I can tell. There's a very nice wah-wah guitar part in there that sounds like Peter.

ChiliD, I've read elsewhere that the long "Black Magic Woman" jam was only at their final show of the tour - don't know whether or not that's true. Sounds like you (and no doubt many other people) have found the same thing that I have, though - that Mick's book conflicts with too many other accounts of various events to be considered very reliable.

Anyway, what I'd like to do is to start a vine to pass this recording on to people here who would like to hear it. I've burned a copy of my disc and I will send it on to the first person who contacts me by by email. That person then agress to burn a copy, post a note on the board here, and then pass along the original disc to the first person who contacts them. That way, everyone who wants a copy will eventually be able to get one. I'll post a note on the board when I receive an email to let everyone know that I've got someone to send the disc to. Hope that sounds ok.

DAMN!! The Ledge's e-mail function doesn't seem to work for me...I keep getting error messages! E-mail me so I can get YOUR email address!

{hand raised, Arnold Horschak-style} Ooooh, Oooh, I wanna copy!

WOW!! That was fast, chiliD! I did get your email, so you will be getting the San Bernadino disc. I'll email you to get your mailing address and I'll get it out to you right away.

Everyone else who wants a copy - chiliD will offer it after he gets the disc and burns a copy for himself.

sharksfan2000, that's great! I will DEFINITELY want a copy. Thanks!!!!:)

Sharksfan2000,

Myself, and the others, I'm sure are very greatful that you would do this for us. I just have one question? I don't have a cd burner, well not yet anyway. I don't know how I could be included if I can't burn a copy for the next interested person. I know this method can't work unless I can burn it. Any ideas? My sister just got a computer with a burner but I don't know if she knows how to use it or if I would be able to figure it out, but that's the closest I can come to continuing the chain?

Re: Re: San Bernardino 1971
 

Just wanted to note, the above quote of mine was a typo, I didn't mean to say "I am right" rather "Am I right"....sorry for the dyslexia!

Hello from Italy.

I know I'm late on this thread, and I will post much more about it as soon as I have time, but for now I can only say that the San Bernardino tape isn't what it is claimed to be.

I think it's fair to say that it was a four piece line-up and certainly Peter Green wasn't there!

See you soon

Mario.

Mario, looking forward to hearing more from you on the San Bernadino recording. It may be something other than what I've heard it's supposed to be. There are definitely two guitars audible on the recording I have though, so I'm not sure how it could be a four-piece line-up, unless Christine's keyboards are doing a very good impression of a guitar. :D

From everything I've read, they never did play as a quartet in those years...from the time of Jeremy's disappearance til Peter Green re-joined to finish that tour, the shows were cancelled/postponed.

COULD they have played San Bernardino BEFORE Jeremy went on his bookstore hike the day of their Whiskey-A-Go-Go gig?

Actually, again from everything I've read, from the time Danny joined the band in '68 until those two or three private party shows Fleetwood Mac did somewhere in the timeframe of 1991/92 as the quartet of Mick, John, Billy Burnette & Rick Vito, they never played live as a quartet.

If anyone has any confirming proof they did do some quartet shows then, please step forward. :)

From the Penguin "Tourbook" concert schedule for '71, the San Bernadino show was after Jeremy left the band, and the first show where Peter joined them (this matches the account I've read in Martin Celmins' book that the San Bernadino show was Peter's first one back with the band). And since Christine sings Jeremy's vocal part on "Purple Dancer" that certainly seems to confirm that Jeremy was already gone.

When did Bob Welch join the group? Did he tour with them later in '71? If that's the case, then I suppose this show could be from that period. Or did they hire another guitarist for live dates after Peter's brief time with them in '71 but before Bob joined? Although I'm pretty sure that there are two guitar players, it's tough to tell whether the one other than Danny could be Peter, Bob, or ??, since Danny plays nearly all of the lead guitar on the recording I have.

Peter finished the tour that Jeremy bailed on. I'm almost 100% sure that they didn't tour again until after Welch had joined and Future Games released. If it is LATE 1971, then Welch could very well have been in the band for this recording.

I recall that it seemed like EVERYBODY played the Swing Auditorium back then. I remember even seeing that Fleetwood Mac played the Swing in 1975/76!! (probably the only SoCal FMac show in that timeframe that I DIDN'T attend)

I listened a bit more to the San Bernadino disc a little while ago. I really can't tell who the second guitarist is - listening more closely I think all of the wah-wah playing is Danny (although there could be a very brief wah-wah passage by the other guitarist). Otherwise the other guitarist pretty much only plays rhythm, but there's some excellent rhythm guitar on the extended part "Tell Me All the Things You Do". The stereo separation is not too good, making it harder to pick out who's playing what.

If I had to guess between Peter and Bob, I'd guess Peter, but not having heard Bob's live guitar playing from this period I really can't tell. The fact that it's only Danny & Christine on vocals makes me think it's more likely to be Peter as well, but with so few tracks on this recording it's impossible to say for sure.

ChiliD, let us know what you think when you get a chance to listen to the disc. Hope Mario can shed some more light on this too!

Hi

I have the San Bernadino show, and I am absolutely sure that it is Peter playing the second guitar. Just listen to the background guitar lines on Dragonfly - it HAS to be Peter.

Daniel

I apologize for interupting the flow of this thread but I am curious about what happened to Jeremy. One of my sources told me that he had been listening to some tapes of Pete's the night before he decided to leave, and he was so impressed by Pete and felt his songs/playing were only mediocre in comparison. Was he bummed out at this realization and the reason he decided to quit? This is just speculation, I don't know, but would like to know more about what happened here. Did he really just up and leave one morning or was it a revelation that he should leave the band and search out religion rather than the Blues. Again, I don't understand what happend? Does it mention in any of the books where the band might have seen something like this coming and were not totally shocked at his departure?

When he left, I'm guessing this was in CA someplace. Did he have a place to go or did he just book the first flight back to England? Did he hang around CA for awhile? Is this where the "Children of God" fits into this saga. It sounds like he really left the band in a jam not having the second guitarest and losing a major personality, like with Green, fans came to identify Fleetwood Mac with Green & Spencer.

Rather than type the LONG story ;) , here's a link to Jeremy's bio here on the Penguin.

Well, ok...here's the section that applies: ;)

Two weeks into their tour to support the album, in L.A., Jeremy disappeared. He had left the hotel at about 3:00 to visit a bookstore on Hollywood Blvd, and on the street he was approached by a member of the religious group called The Children Of God. When the guitarist failed to show up for that evening's gig, the police were contacted, and five worry-filled days later Spencer was traced to the Children Of God headquarters, a warehouse in downtown L.A. In order to get in to see Spencer, manager Clifford Davis had to make up a story about Jeremy's wife, Fiona, being seriously ill. According to a Fleetwood Mac roadie who was at the scene, Spencer "was walking around in a daze like a zombie...he'd been brainwashed. It nearly killed me to see him." His head had been shaved and he now answered to the biblical name Jonathan. Davis and Spencer talked for 3 hours, while members of the cult rubbed Jeremy's arms and chanted 'Jesus Loves You' repeatedly. Apparently the guitarist had been doing some 'soul-searching': "Acid trips and dope, fame and fortune, pride and conceit, idleness and every other sin took hold of me from the start of the material success of the band." Much like Peter Green, Jeremy also felt unworthy of all the adoration he'd been receiving in the group. Ironically, to replace Spencer on their tour, which still had 6 weeks left, Fleetwood Mac begged Green to fly in and help them complete the shows, which he did.


Jeremy Spencer Bio at The Penguin

In Mick's book, he says that on the plane from San Francisco to LA, Jeremy had what I would describe as a mild panic attack about going to Los Angeles. It was not too long after the San Fernando Valley earthquake in 1971 which caused some MAJOR damage in the area. Jeremy (again, according to Mick's book) took it as some sort of evil "omen".

1971 San Fernando Earthquake

Hello again from Italy.

Here I am about the vexed question of "San Bernardino".

Firstly, sorry for the big mistake I did last time I posted...of course it was a FIVE piece line-up, but Iwas in hurry and this didn't help.

So, I've looked in the various book, Celmin's, Bob Brunning's,Mick Fleetwood's, also Pete Frame's Rock Family Trees, to try and check dates. Most state a date of mid February for Jeremy leaving the band. Allowing for the few days spent trying to get Jeremy back, plus 2/3/4 days for Peter to fly out, this would mean a first gig date of around say 21-25 February (not 24 March), Brunning's book state that the first gig Peter did was San Bernardino.

Again both Pete Frame and Bob Brunning state that Bob Welsh joined the band in April 1971, after the tour was over, so 24/3/71 date would appear to be late in the Green tour of six weeks. Welsh is certainly playing with the band by June 1971 as that is the start of the recording sessions for "Future Game".

Green stated he would only play if they did the sit list his way "Black Magic Woman" plus 3/4 jam session numbers.

Listening to the tape I have the following observations:

1- Most of the numbers are fairly short and structured (this goes against the Green jam session statement)

2- I'm sure I can detect a second guitar on some of the numbers, (which goes against the teory that Peter was off stage for this segment of the set)

3- Christine seems to do most of the talking/announcing and does mention both Danny and Mick, but not Jeremy.

4- "Get Like You Used To Be" and "I'd Rather Go Blind" come from Christine's Vhickenshack days.

5- My friend R.Jim Greaves saw the band in October/November 1970 (Christine was already playing with them) and at that time Jeremy stayed on stage for the whole set - unlike the Peter Green days.

6- Also at that time they played at least one long jam style number, often it was "Hi Ho Silver", from "Kiln House"

7- Just because there are no Jeremy Spencer songs on the tape does not mean he wasn't there. Most of his material was still Elmore and Elvis style, so They may not have recorded or edited out.

8- I know thre's is a fair amount of wah.wah guitar,but that sounds to be all in Danny's more "jagged" oe "choppy" style, not fluid enough for Peter.

On balance I don't believe this is what it claims to be. I don't think Peter is on the tape, although I find it very difficult to pick out Peter's playing on Grateful Dead, Clapton jams, ecc...

I suspect this is an earlier gig, before Jeremy left, passed off as one of the "Greeny gigs"

My only doubt is about some guitar playing on "Dragonfly" and I love so much Peter's Legacy that I'm more than happy for someone to prove me wrong, but until then I'll stick with Peter not playing.

Stay always Green....

Mario.

Mario,

Thanks for your detailed info. I'm still not convinced that Peter isn't playing on that show (which may or may not be San Bernadino).

I don't feel that the various books and other written sources on this period are reliable. Things were written so long after the events in question that memories may not be accurate. Also, some of the people who wrote these things may have had their own agendas to push. I'm not sure I believe Peter was willing to join the band for that tour only if they played "Black Magic Woman" plus some jamming, but I wasn't there so I may be completely wrong on that.

I'm basing my belief on what I hear on the show. The most compelling evidence to me is that Christine is singing the part of "Purple Dancer" that Jeremy sings on the studio version. Unless Jeremy had a bad voice that night and couldn't sing, it seems like that would indicate that he had already left the band.

Are there any recordings of shows from late '70 or early '71 before Jeremy left? I don't know of any, but it would be wonderful to hear a show that we know for sure is from that period.

Anyway, it's great to have this discussion going. I doubt that any of us will be able to "prove" who's playing on that show or even the date and location, but it's fun to talk about it.

From everything I've read, Jeremy left on Feb 9, 1971. IF this was March 24th...it would HAVE to be Peter on second guitar. Case solved.