[snoot]

This is reminiscent of what I just posted in the Rumours section [yes I actually wormed my way in there for some misguided reason] under the post Genre of Rock? -- in that one shoe (answer) does not fit all (everything).

dansven: I strongly disagree with the description of Peter after the "Munich" incident, Snoot.

I'm not referring specifically to the Munich affair Daniel, as I have never believed that alone accounts for Green's wigging out, and eventual quitting of the game. Could it have contributed to it? Sure, but to what extent I'm not sure any of us will ever know definitively. Only I'll lay down my last dollar in stating it wasn't the entire reason - just as you believe. If you go back and read earlier posts of mine, you will see I've stated the same thing all along.

dansven: All the live bootlegs from his last days with Mac are fantastic, and shows an incredibly gifted and innovative musician. This is also heard on "The End Of The Game". If anything was hit and miss, I'd say the bootlegs of the Kiln House line-up.

Part of this contention and even confusion stems from misinterpretations - or lack of specifics - in the descriptions we all use. When I say hit n miss, I'm above all else referring to his mental state, more than his playing state. Now as in the past.

As for the young Germans being after Peter with intentions to brainwash etc, that's pure bunk. Only an imbecile would believe that that house visit alone spun Peter 180 degrees. You only have to follow the trail up to that point to glimpse the fuller picture. To what extent Munich pushed the whole thing over the top is anyone's guess - but IMO what happened to PG was inevitable with or without Munich, as it was a long time coming. Like I said earlier, his cup filleth and ran over. Excessive drug use can do that. And sometimes that's all it takes and the damage is done for good.

dansven: I don't think him leaving had any direct connection with taking drugs or any illness.

I think these factors did play into his quitting the band, and the scene in general. Again to what extent versus even further factors - to include pressure, fatigue, burnout, guilt, altruism, mental decline - is anyone's guess. But they are part of the equation. This all makes for engaging conversation if nothing else, in that we all love mazes.

dansven: Feeling limited and wanting to move on musically!

Not so sure, unless he was more messed up in his head than is already generally accepted. He and Danny in particular were blazing new and fertile ground, they were moving further away from their original blues rock core, and already had an additional project in the works. Not sure why he would have felt compelled to align with strangers for backing when he had aces in the hand. To me it smacks of him further losing his bearings - and/or his mind.

dansven: The "Munich incident" is a myth, and people love myths.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it a myth outright, but I too feel it is overblown and exaggerated to cover for the excesses that predate it. How much it really made a difference in the end is not easy to determine, due to conflicting reports and assessments from those nearer the scene (and who may have had vested interests for seeing it one way or another). But there's always more to practically every story than what first meets the eye, especially a rather simplistic "easy out' one like the Munich incident.

dansven: If anything was hit and miss, I'd say the bootlegs of the Kiln House line-up. However great, they weren't always that tight. And they needed to work on their vocals as a trio (especially Chris, ahem...). But still, they were great!

Well this may surprise you my friend, but I agree. But we also have to keep in mind the band was in a state of flux, and attempting to find a new, lesser green identity (in as much as that was possible). When any outfit loses its founder and guiding hand in the way they did Peter, it is jarring to say the least. There was a time back then many doubted the Mac could carry on, including the surviving members of the band. It was all touch and go there for a while; that should come as no surprise.