[snoot]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

For the third time: There's no formula as to who is inducted. Bands don't always have a say as to who is included. Now, to make it simpler, some bands have more power than other bands because they're considered more important than other bands.

Yeah it's all hocus pocus, a real rabbit-out-of-the-hat trick. Gotchya.

And of course, Grateful Dead dwarf Fleetwood Mac in raw "power," ROTFL! Have you ever compared their record sales, let alone impact on "pop culture"? Give me a break.

Prior to 1997, Fleetwood Mac had fallen out of the public eye. They had the reunion, and I think the timing for them was right. They could have argued a little harder, but would rather have had that moment. In other words, it wasn't perfect, but it was good enough.

That's bull. They didn't "argue" or push at all. They kept the limelight all for themselves. But keep dreaming if that's your preference.

The Grateful Dead, by contrast, had been a pretty consistent draw for nearly 30 years by the time they were inducted. Not only were they one of the biggest bands ever, they were their own counter-culture in a way Fleetwood Mac could never have dreamed of. Jerry Garcia and Bob Weir are the two most recorded guitarists ever.

More exaggerations. The Dead have not outdrawn FM since the Buckingham-Nicks era. There have been attendance lulls for both bands over the years, often due to changing or MIA personnel. Counter-culture doesn't equate to "popular culture", nor record sales. The Dead are a big act, but to argue they leave the Mac bested by any type of sales or attendance measuring sticks is like whistling in the dark. Want to compare official sales charts?

snoot Quote:
Popular culture! That's beside the point! They were inducting FLEETWOOD MAC, the band, not individual, cherry picked members of it. Or at least, THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN. Sorry you think it all boils down to how that bloody board sees things. How friggen lame.

I agree it's lame, but it's the Hall of Fame. Any body that would put Madonna in before Yes, Rush, or Genesis is, by definition, lame.

We agree here, big time. There's hope yet!

snoot Quote:
If it was all about "popular culture," how did half the acts that grace that Hall get it there? Starting with the Velvet Underground and Sex Pistols!

Because, those bands have had a lasting impact on popular culture. Punk rock and art rock are as alive today as ever, and most of those bands cite VU or the Pistols as influences. Hell, I was listening to both bands earlier today.

Before you were arguing no hits=no dice. So how many ways should we dice this thing up? While neither of us can say for certain what makes up the so called criteria, or more importantly what goes on behind the scenes, one thing is for certain: there are a HELLUVA lot of musicians in there that couldn't measure up to Welch's navel, let alone musical heights and accomplishments. You just named two imo.

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Ha! Now you're rewriting history according to how the uninformed see it. I cannot correlate these two adjoining phrases of yours: "Danny is honestly inconsequential" with "Yes, he was brilliant and became one of the most important members in the history of the band"! You're losing me in the contradiction.

No. I'm actually rock solid, here. One is Danny's impact on Peter Green, the other is more a reference to what he did for the band in the wake of Peter's departure. I agree with ChiliD. Peter needed a foil, and Danny happened to fit that bill. Be sure, Danny's inclusion had more to do with the fact he played in Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac than it did for Kiln House. Otherwise, Welch would have been included, too.

"Peter needed a foil, and Danny happened to fit that bill." => Uh, ok. Dang, and so simple too.

"Otherwise, Welch would have been included, too. "

How many times do I have to state this! Welch was stiffed because Chris and Mick were miffed. Period.

Be sure, Danny's inclusion had more to do with the fact he played in Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac than it did for Kiln House.

Danny's inclusion had everything to do with his impact on the Mac. If it was "justified" (and sanctified in your eyes) by his participation with PGFM, so be it.

I know too well his importance to the band. But, it's not the Important to the History of Fleetwood Mac Hall of Fame, it's the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. They don't care about the history of Fleetwood Mac, they care about Fleetwood Mac's impact on rock music/popular culture. The two variants of Fleetwood Mac that had that impact were Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac, of which Danny was a part, and the Rumours band.

Dumb argument, but go on and buy into it. You'll be making the Big 5 happy. When someone - anyone - can cherry pick Bob Welch out of the FM equation, the game is up. Checkmate.

snoot Quote:
To cut to the chase, go read what is written above >> again. Look for the => Garcia reference. I could add others to boot, but that one will suffice nicely. HINT: It WAS the band's decision! Put 1 + 1 together man, again just use the Garcia pointer.

I'm still not conviced.

You can lead a horse to water but ... ah, forget it.

snoot Quote:
Uh, really? Mick hasn't talked to Bob Welch in years, almost two decades now I if I'm correct! Where were you when the sour grapes went down? Go look up a certain lawsuit circa 1990 or so involving Welch and The Mac. There's your answer.

Ummm, you're totally wrong. The lawsuit was settled, Bob and Mick are talking, Bob was at the band's 2003 Nashville show, and Mick recently played or agreed to play a benefit for Bob's wife. Also, Billy was involved in the Mick Fleetwood Band about two years ago, and that morphed into the Mick Fleetwood Blues Band, which is basically lead by Rick Vito. Yeah, them grapes are still sour.

Duh of course I knew the lawsuit was settled, after mucho kicking and screaming! That was hardly Bob's fault!

Ok I didn't realize there was any kind of thawing of the ice at any time. And I don't know if the ill feelings are fully healed, or if the communication lines are still working, as we speak. My impression is that they are not. But more importantly, what you've presented is all after the fact, and has nothing to do with what went down at HOF in '98. Bob was passed over on purpose, by Mick & Chris in particular (and possibly John, though I wonder if he would have preferred it that way if left to his own devices), not the HOF board. Keep repeating your mantra so you keep yourself convinced. "La La La" works too.

But since you want to pull out basically irrelevant quotes to support your misinformed position and sidetrack what I'm trying to tell you, try this (and note, all from ONE SINGLE Q&A session, but I could pull plenty more! But alas, what would be the point? You'll believe what you want to!).

[See next post for quotes]