[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by snoot

And of course, Grateful Dead dwarf Fleetwood Mac in raw "power," ROTFL! Have you ever compared their record sales, let alone impact on "pop culture"? Give me a break.

Okay, then. Weak sales=not worthy of induction. Thanks for proving the Hall's point with Fleetwood Mac. Garcia was worth $250+million when he died. Do you think he made that through lousy sales and neckties?

That's bull. They didn't "argue" or push at all. They kept the limelight all for themselves. But keep dreaming if that's your preference.

There's no proof, though. And, other bands have had similar issues.

The Grateful Dead, by contrast, had been a pretty consistent draw for nearly 30 years by the time they were inducted. Not only were they one of the biggest bands ever, they were their own counter-culture in a way Fleetwood Mac could never have dreamed of. Jerry Garcia and Bob Weir are the two most recorded guitarists ever.

More exaggerations. The Dead have not outdrawn FM since the Buckingham-Nicks era. There have been attendance lulls for both band over the years, often due to changing or MIA personnel. Counter-culture doesn't equate to "popular culture", nor record sales. The Dead are a big act, but to argue they leave the Mac bested by any type of sales or attendance measuring sticks is like whistling in the dark. Want to compare official sales charts?

Where did I say they outdrew Fleetwood Mac? I said they were a pretty consistent draw for nearly thirty years. From 1965 until Garcia's death, the band toured every year, except 1975, and they still managed four shows that year. At the time of their induction, they were one of the top drawing acts for several years. Fleetwood Mac does not have anything like the Deadheads. There are the Stevie fans, and DavidMn, but they're a rarity. Plus, look at bands like Phish, Dave Matthews Band, and EVEN PETER GREEN that list the Dead as inluences. People tend to list Peter Green or Stevie Nicks as influences, but rarely any of the others. And, when they were inducted, they had been out of a relative state of current obscurity for all of eight months. The Dead were in a MUCH better place to negotiate their induction. (The best part is the Hall met Jerry's demands, and he still skipped the ceremony.)

Before you were arguing no hits=no dice.

Yes, as it relates to Fleetwood Mac's induction.

So how many ways should we dice this thing up? While neither of us can say for certain what makes up the so called criteria, or more importantly what goes on behind the scenes, one thing is for certain: there are a HELLUVA lot of musicians in there that couldn't measure up to Welch's navel, let alone musical heights and accomplishments. You just named two imo.

But, Welch didn't have the sustained impact on culture that those bands had. I'd bet my life savings that more young musicians will cite the Sex Pistols or Velvet Underground as influences than Bob Welch. That's not a knock on Bob, BTW. That's just dumb luck.

How many times do I have to state this! Welch was stiffed because Chris and Mick were miffed. Period.

And your proof? Because here's how I see it: Other bands have had key members excluded by the Hall, and John McVie is STILL miffed at Danny Kirwan, yet Danny was still included.

Danny's inclusion had everything to do with his impact on the Mac. If it was "justified" (and sanctified in your eyes) by his participation with PGFM, so be it.

His inclusion was along the lines of Joe Negroni of Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers. Yeah, he was in an influential band, but he wasn't the star, and would have been completely forgotten if it hadn't been for Frankie Lymon. But, yeah, I suppose he had an impact on Frakie Lymon and the Teenagers.

I know too well his importance to the band. But, it's not the Important to the History of Fleetwood Mac Hall of Fame, it's the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. They don't care about the history of Fleetwood Mac, they care about Fleetwood Mac's impact on rock music/popular culture. The two variants of Fleetwood Mac that had that impact were Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac, of which Danny was a part, and the Rumours band.

Dumb argument, but go on and buy into it. You'll be making the Big 5 happy. When someone - anyone - can cherry pick Bob Welch out of the FM equation, the game is up. Checkmate.

Hey, I'm just explaining the logic. I never said I approved. Reality can be a real sumbitch sometimes.