|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Help identifying country of origin of bootleg
Reaching out to Ledge members from the Scandinavian parts of our world – I’m hoping that someone might be able to identify the language being spoken at the end of a bootleg said to have been recorded in Helsinki in the spring of 1969 (this would make it April 3rd according to Christopher Hjort)
I have also seen this show dated as September 24th and simply 1970 (no specific date given) As this set contains the only live performance of “Man of the World” that I am aware of, it is easy enough to identify. Based on the set list (they perform Rattlesnake Shake with the “Madge” coda and “Oh Well”), April of 1969 seems way too early. As most of the songs are kept fairly short, and they do not perform “Green Manalishi” it seems doubtful that it is from 1970 either. Based on the playing, I have come to think it is most likely from their November 1969 Scandinavian tour, possibly even the “Cue Room" in Goteborg. Dawson has posted a show on the Wolfgang’s Vault site said to be that show, but most here agree that the show in question it is from a later date – could this be the actual show recorded on that date? The comments I refer to come after their last encore, Little Richard’s “Keep-a-Knockin’”. It lasts about twenty seconds but between the poor recording and the fact that I would not be able to indentify Danish, from Swedish, from Finnish, I defer to others who may be more familiar with these languages. Of course, knowing "where" it was recorded will still not tell us "when", but at least it would provide a “correct” point of departure. I thank all who have too much time on their hands, the desire to help and the ability to do so, in advance for their time.
__________________
www.smilingcorgipress.com All the rusted signs we ignore throughout our lives, choosing the shiny ones instead E. Vedder |
. |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
It's finnish....
I have a bootleg recording, supposedly from Helsinki 3rd of April 1970. Hjort notes that " The European tour grinds to a halt with this concert". They performed at a place called: Kultuuritaalo.
My version doesn't have "Man of the World" on it, but it has someone yapping away for about twenty seconds after "Keep-a Knocking", so it must be the one you are referring to. And it is in finnish as far as I can hear. It differs from the other scandinavian languages in that it is a slavic not than a nordic language, and has its own tone and rhytm. To complicate matters, some finnish people close to the swedish border speak "finnish-swedish" (i.e. swedish with the finnish rhytm and tone :-)). So it could be a concert in Sweden with a finnish-swedish compere. But I don't think so. Any finns aboard to disagree with me? Ms Moose P.S. "Rattlesnakeshake" was recorded for "Then Play On" in the spring of 1969, so it could be performed in 1969, couldn't it? Last edited by Ms Moose; 02-05-2010 at 01:34 PM.. |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Thank you – yes you are correct concerning when “Rattlesnake Shake” was recorded (April 15, 1969) so it is possible that this was one of the first times they had performed the number – they had performed a number of songs that would end up on “Then Play On” before recording them in the studio, such as “Before the Beginning” and “Coming Your Way” –
However, the earliest live performances available of “Coming Your Way” find the band taking the number at a break-neck pace – then, after the Royal Albert Hall performance, (April 22nd) it settles into something closer to the studio recording’s tempo It is the inclusion of “Oh Well” that really throws me – it is a bit rougher than later versions, as if they have not quite locked down the riff, though they could be experimenting; “Homework”, which opens this show, is also quite different from their other performances of the song – You mentioned that the recording that you have does not include “Man of the World” – is the one that you have nine tracks? Beginning with “If You Let Me Love You”? The show with “Man of the World” runs to thirteen tracks and seems complete unto itself – the nine track disc was listed as the second disc to that show – but I am beginning to believe that the two were recorded at different times - so it does seem possible that the nine numbers were recorded in April of 1969...
__________________
www.smilingcorgipress.com All the rusted signs we ignore throughout our lives, choosing the shiny ones instead E. Vedder |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Hm-m. I must have the nine track recording then?
It goes like this: 1. If You let Me Love You 2. Something Inside of Me 3. Jigsaw Puzzle Blues 4. Stop messing Around 5. Before The Beginning 6. Rattlesnake Shake/Searching for Madge 7. Loving Kind 8. Great Balls of Fire 9. Keep A-Knocking So you actually think this was recorded a year before - meaning april 1969 (not april 1970?) According to Hjort they rounded of their tour of the nordic countires with a concert in Finland on the 3rd of April 1969, so it is plausible. Also the music sounds more 69 than 70'es to me. The live recordings from the last three months of FM (as we know it ) were much more abandoned or wild (can you use that word for it?). That 13 track recording of yours sounds very interesting! They did "Homework" a lot around 68/69 (I love that song), and a less polished version of "Oh Well" and the only live version of "Man of the World" - WOW! Ms Moose |
#5
|
||||
|
||||
I downloaded this from Dime, 19 tracks (including the closing anouncements mentioned) with bonus 4 tracks july 1968 and coverart:
Perhaps this answers a few questions???? Fleetwood Mac-1969-09-24 Helsinki, Kultuuritalo & Helsinki July 1968----Upgrade from FM & 2nd Gen. Audience---------! Friends, going through my collection, I found out, that my F.Mac Helsinki 69 FM version has 1 song more & is sounding different (better?) than the previous upload from last year! I also added the audience portion from the same show and all I have from Helsinki 1968! This is a nice addition to the recent phantatistic F.Mac 8/70 uploads! Mp3 samples below! Tracklist: 1969-09-24 Helsinki, Kultuuritalo: 01. Homework 02. Man Of The World, 03. Like It This Way, 04. Only You, 05. I Believe My Time Ain't Long, 06. Stranger Blues, 07. All over again aka "I´ve got a good Mind to give up living" 08. Oh Well, 09. Comin' Your Way, 10. Shake your money Maker*(not incl in previous upload) 11. Albatross, 12. Great Balls Of Fire (Tape flaws ) 13. Jenny, Jenny/cut´s early ------Audience portion: 14. Before the Beginning 15. Rattlesnake Shake 16. Loving Kind 17. Great Balls of Fire(same version as FM version above) 18. Keep a Knockin´ 19. Closing Anouncements Helsinki July 1968 Audience: 20. If you let me love you 21. Something Inside of Me 22. Jigsaw Puzzle Blues 23. Stop Messing arround Peter Green - Guitar, Vocals Jeremy Spencer - Guitar, Piano, Vocals Danny Kirwan – Guitar, Vocals John McVie - Bass Mick Fleetwood - Drums Lineage: FM:Unknown (low) Gen. Cassette-Nak BMX300-PDR-05 – EAC –Cool Edit- FLAC Aud: 2nd Gen Cass. :same as above No EQ! Transferred, Mastered & Uploaded to Dime May 14, 2006! Enjoy this piece of F.Mac History! |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Wouter, thanks for that -
I have seen the breakdown that you have listed but the date of September 24th is almost certainly incorrect – the did tour the U.K. during September and October, including dates in Ireland, but nowhere else. I also believe that these are two different shows. The thirteen are one show, the nine listed by Ms. Moose another. I am uncertain how the order of the nine got switched up... The two versions of “Great Balls of Fire” are not the same – although the running time is almost the same, they are clearly two different performances. The guitars and even Spencer's vocal is different on the two. Also, after the first, the band retunes and then goes into “Keep-a-Knockin’”. On the second, they go almost immediately into “Jenny Jenny”. If the nine are from Helsinki in April of 1969, it would be mean that they were performing “Rattlesnake Shake” with the “Madge” section before they cut it in the studio ! Hard to believe it could be from April of 1970 though, as by that time, they were already incorporating “Underway” and all of the versions from 1970 run over twenty minutes in length. Curiouser and curiouser….
__________________
www.smilingcorgipress.com All the rusted signs we ignore throughout our lives, choosing the shiny ones instead E. Vedder |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Any other place to get this? Dime won't accept connections from Comcast in Florida
|
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Helsinki concerts
Sorry for bringing up an old topic. Just found this forum via Google.
I was quoted somewhere in this thread about the 1969-11-11 date in Finland. I have since collected some additional information about the Helsinki recordings: Tracks 1-13 from the compilation below are from 1969-11-11 (late show, complete). Tracks 14-19 are from 1969-11-11 (early show, incomplete) Tracks 20-23 are from 1969-03-31 (incomplete) All are audience recordings. Full audience recordings (maybe several?) of these shows are said to exist, but don't seem to have yet been shared online. A nearly complete FM radio recording from 1969-11-11 (late show) also exists and has been shared at Dime (and subsequently TD.net) in the past with inaccurate 1969-09-24 date. Unfortunately the online versions of all of these Helsinki recordings have lossy lineage and have therefore been banned from Dime and other sites who don't allow mp3->FLAC lineage. No recordings are yet known to exist from their first Helsinki show (Nov. 1968). A 4th visit was planned for April 1970, but it was canceled - meaning a bit surprisingly that none of Hjort's Finnish concert date information for F. Mac is quite accurate. Hope this helps! Quote:
|
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
I did split up this "potentially" mixed bootleg, and kept "Rattlesnake Shake", "Before the Beginning", "Loving Kind", "Great Balls of Fire" and "Keep a Knocking" in a 1970-04-03 Kulttuuritalo, Helsinki folder. The rest ("If you let me love you", "Something Inside of Me", "Jigsaw Puzzle Blues" and "Stop Messing Around") went to a Helsinki 1968-07-xx folder... Though, I suspect "Rattlesnake Shake", "Before the Beginning", "Loving Kind", "Great Balls of Fire" and "Keep a Knocking" were recorded at Kulttuuritalo 1969-11-11. (It's said that FM did two shows 11/11, and at least one included Man of the world /z |
#10
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
1969 11 8 Nov 8 Denmark Copenhagen K. B. Hallen 1969 11 13 Nov 13 BBC Top of the Pops But then.....who knows. So confusing.... When you feel that you're losing...... .......your mind (FREE, Child) |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Wouter and Zoork1, you mention this:
Helsinki July 1968 Audience: 20. If you let me love you 21. Something Inside of Me 22. Jigsaw Puzzle Blues 23. Stop Messing arround 21 and 22 are Danny Kirwan numbers, but Danny Kirwan hadn't even joined FM then. He joined in September 1968. Ms Moose |
#12
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
So, there rises another problem: when and where do these 4 recordings originate???? |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
FM in Finland
Think I've passed this info before, but who knows...
Found these comments around a year ago or so: "I've collected some background info about this recording since it was last seeded. The correct date is 1969-11-11. The band played twice that night and the late show was recorded and broadcasted in national radio by YLE (Finnish Broadcast Company). I don't how the date Sept. 24 has been attached to this recording. Fleetwood Mac's previous concerts in Finland were in March 1969 and November 1968." "My main source for the 11/11 date is the local newspaper from 1969. Other sources confirm that date. The support act was a local band called Black Flag of Utopia." So maybe 4 songs/DK's songs are from November 1968? /z |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
Zoork 1-
that is really good information - the November 11 1969 makes much more sense - Hjort says the tour ended on November 8th, and there are no concert listings after that until they head to the U.S. in December. It is perfectly possible that Hjort missed that show (and others) - it is the best and most logical explanation and it certainly fits with the way the band is playing - I have been listening to the band's performances of 'Coming Your Way' and the number evolved in a rather straight forward manner in concert, starting off at a break-neck speed and then, beginning at Buxton, slowing down and then about two weeks later, at the Essen Festival, beginning to grow longer, the break becoming more rhythmically complex - the "Helsinki" version seems to split the difference between Buxton and Essen, but I am still willing to believe it is from November That time frame also nicely accounts for "Rattlesnake Shake" they were just beginning to expand upon at that time - As to the four numbers, starting with 'If You Let Me Love You' I would venture to say that they may also be from one of the "two shows" performed that night - there is really nothing distinct in the performances of the other numbers to help us place them - but "If You Let Me Love You" will show up early in the American tour starting in December in a different arrangement that soothes my OCD for now - until someone comes along and blows a huge hole in that theory!
__________________
www.smilingcorgipress.com All the rusted signs we ignore throughout our lives, choosing the shiny ones instead E. Vedder |
#15
|
||||
|
||||
compilation
did anyone consider that this might be a live compilation mixed in together?
just a thought doodyhear |
|
|
Fleetwood Mac signed lp Live 1980 , 5 members, Original Album, Vintage Vinyl Rec
$285.00
Vintage Fleetwood Mac Artist Signed Poster Framed
$49.99
1975 Fleetwood Mac Self-Titled Reprise MS 2225 Vinyl LP Record VG+
$14.38
Fleetwood Mac - Tango In The Night LP Forest Green Vinyl Exclusive Limited Ed.
$67.50
Fleetwood Mac: Greatest Hits - Audio CD By FLEETWOOD MAC - VERY GOOD
$5.39