Thoughts on Fahrenheit 9/11 *spoilers*

[dissention]

Sorry I didn't post this yesterday, guys, I was still getting over what I had just seen.

I started balling two minutes into the film when they showed the congressmen and women standing on the floor of the Senate calling Gore "Mr. President" and saying they didn't give a damn that their bills hadn't been signed by a single senator. That was some heavy **** to take.

To have that quickly followed by footage of 9/11 really affected me.

If Moore's main point was to enrage people, he did so with me. I was already raging when I went in to see it, but I came out with a mission to defeat Bush. Movies like this NEED to be made more often. It's a very different experience to watch the news because you only get a couple pieces of real info each night, if that. But to see everything in such quick succession on film is something to behold. Bush really is the embodiment of evil.

Now, first off, don't listen to what the right-wing pundits say about Moore lying, he doesn't do it once. Pay extra special attention to what he says about the Saudi and bin Laden flights, you'll see that it is completely factual.

While I type this, only two words come to mind: Lila Lipscomb. That woman, my god. If I was sobbing before she came onscreen, I really lost it when she did. It put things about this war into so much perspective that I couldn't handle the reality of it all. When she was in DC for a conference and decided to go to the White House, the whole theater cheered her on. But when that abomination of humanity approached her and yelled "This is all staged! Blame al-Qaeda!" at her, I literally saw red. Never in my life had I ever been so infuriated by a person, not even Bush. When she proceeded to yell "Where was your son supposedly killed?!" I wanted to commit murder. Then, when she had the gall to yell "Well, others died, too!" I screamed "C*CKSUCKER!" at the screen as loud as I could.

I was incredibly touched that she had shared the letter her son had written to her a few days before he was murdered. To hear her read him writing about seeing his family and newborns was something I'll never forget. I will also never forget the old Iraqi woman screaming for Allah, that was unforgettable.

The scenes from Iraq were incredibly hard to watch, not only because of the violence, but because of the sheer ignorance of the troops on the ground. The same guy that says he's going to win the hearts and minds of the people invades a residential house for no reason at all, then proceeds to kidnap the young man who lives there with his mother and sister.

Then, to top it all off at the end, they showed that blasted convention where everyone tlake dabout how much money could be made off of Iraq. Soulless bastards.

Moore's use of humor was very much necessary, in my opinion. Without it, I don't think I would've made it through the movie.

The crowd I was with was fantastic. They were among the most furious Bush-haters I've come across. A group of people were even handing out Kerry flyers and stickers. The last scene of Bush trying to say the "old saying" got a lot of "What a f*cking IDIOT!" comments from the audience. When the movie was over, the crowd applauded. And it couldn't have been more deserved.

This movie was a masterpiece and I'll most certainly see it again. You'll never have a more sobering experience.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Lux

Are most people going to see this film with little previous knowledge?

Yes. Americans are the most ignorant people on the face of the earth and wouldn't pay attention to political issues that affect them if those issues flew up and bit them in their McDonalds-enlarged asses. The only reason this is doing so well is because of the controversy. Just as it was the popular thing to do to see "Passion of the Christ," it's the popular thing to do to see this film. Hopefully it will change some ignorant minds. I mean, there was obviously a few people in the showing I went to that didn't get most of it; it flew right over their heads. For all they know, the Carlyle Group is a Catholic school in the mid-west. But, the majority of people were greatly affected by what they saw and left with tears in their eyes. That's wonderful, if you ask moi.

[dissention]

Where in the hell did your post go, Jason???

I didn't know we were into self-censoring.

To tackle what you said about the humor, I greatly disagree. I don't think the movie would have gone over as well if it didn't contain humor. I mean, it does contain it and it was STILL a VERY difficult movie to watch. It needs some sort of levity and Bush and his cronies certainly provided it. It doesn't make Moore's points any less credible or valid at all.

As for it being biased, show me a doc that isn't.

And I especially loved the footage of the cronies saying that Saddam was under control and had no weapons.

[DrummerDeanna]

Crazy....and yes, I'm thinking this film will enrage many...and many many people are going to go in having absolutely NO prior knowledge of anything...

A good friend of mine went last night with a group of his theater friends (all over 18, NOT ONE voted in the last presidential election..they are all registered democrats) And a lot of them were moved enough by the film to start getting on the defeat bush band wagon....some (who had no prior knowledge) decided to wait and do more research, which I admire...but really hope they vote.

I haven't seen the film yet, because movies are crazy expensive here in DC...but I do want to see it, so I"m going to try and catch a matinee...

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

Where in the hell did your post go, Jason???

I didn't know we were into self-censoring.

To tackle what you said about the humor, I greatly disagree. I don't think the movie would have gone over as well if it didn't contain humor. I mean, it does contain it and it was STILL a VERY difficult movie to watch. It needs some sort of levity and Bush and his cronies certainly provided it. It doesn't make Moore's points any less credible or valid at all.

As for it being biased, show me a doc that isn't.

And I especially loved the footage of the cronies saying that Saddam was under control and had no weapons.

I edited - then deleted. I did not want to tear down the movie with my over analyzation. So, I thought better of my post. That is why I deleted. Hell, it was only up for like 15 min. I thought no one saw it

But, in the end and like I said, I think it is a stunning and good good movie. I think it will awaken people to thought, which is a good thing no matter how they think

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Lux

I'm so happy it's getting such big response. However I have to ask a question. Are most people going to see this film with little previous knowledge?

I would guess there are surprises in the film for everyone. The military document was quite a suprise to me.

[gldstwmn]

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/flight.htm

SNOPES: Members of the Bin Laden family and several
Saudis MAY have left the US while almost all flights
were still grounded until Friday the 14th of
September, 2001. I have not found any evidence
otherwise. Not in any Newsweek article or in the 911
commissions reports, but I did find this on the Snopes
Urban Legend Reference pages (link to follow):

"However, records obtained from the U.S. Department of
Homeland Security under the Freedom of Information Act
(FOIA) seem to indicate that one flight carrying
approximately 46 Saudi citizens may have left the U.S.
from New York as early as September 13, before the
general ban on air travel was lifted. The records do
not identify who these passengers may have been — bin
Laden relatives, royal family members, or other Saudi
nationals. (The "Class of Admission" column in the
document lists the departing passengers as a mixture
of foreign government officials and their employees
and temporary visitors to the U.S. for either business
or pleasure.)"

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by dissention

Sorry I didn't post this yesterday, guys, I was still getting over what I had just seen.

I started balling two minutes into the film when they showed the congressmen and women standing on the floor of the Senate calling Gore "Mr. President" and saying they didn't give a damn that their bills hadn't been signed by a single senator. That was some heavy **** to take.

The only thing that remedied that scene for me (I was extremely upset) was Bush's limo getting egged after the inauguration. It cracked me up. He knew he didn't win. That's why he's the only president that never got out and walked. It's tradition. He'a a f*cking coward. It did my heart good to see all the protestors.
Now, that said, I want to say something that's been bugging me. I posted an article about 1.9 million votes in the 2000 election not being counted-about half of which were votes from African Americans. I got one snarky response to it-no offense Carne- and in my mind I kind of equate that to that scene in the movie. It was exactly what I was thinking as I was watching it. No one said anything.

While I type this, only two words come to mind: Lila Lipscomb. That woman, my god. If I was sobbing before she came onscreen, I really lost it when she did. It put things about this war into so much perspective that I couldn't handle the reality of it all. When she was in DC for a conference and decided to go to the White House, the whole theater cheered her on. But when that abomination of humanity approached her and yelled "This is all staged! Blame al-Qaeda!" at her, I literally saw red. Never in my life had I ever been so infuriated by a person, not even Bush. When she proceeded to yell "Where was your son supposedly killed?!" I wanted to commit murder. Then, when she had the gall to yell "Well, others died, too!"

I pity that woman in the film if she is ever found.

I was incredibly touched that she had shared the letter her son had written to her a few days before he was murdered. To hear her read him writing about seeing his family and newborns was something I'll never forget. I will also never forget the old Iraqi woman screaming for Allah, that was unforgettable.

The scenes from Iraq were incredibly hard to watch, not only because of the violence, but because of the sheer ignorance of the troops on the ground. The same guy that says he's going to win the hearts and minds of the people invades a residential house for no reason at all, then proceeds to kidnap the young man who lives there with his mother and sister.

Then, to top it all off at the end, they showed that blasted convention where everyone tlake dabout how much money could be made off of Iraq. Soulless bastards.

That's the convention where Moore filmed Nick Berg. That scene was quite disgusting.

Moore's use of humor was very much necessary, in my opinion. Without it, I don't think I would've made it through the movie.

The crowd I was with was fantastic. They were among the most furious Bush-haters I've come across. A group of people were even handing out Kerry flyers and stickers. The last scene of Bush trying to say the "old saying" got a lot of "What a f*cking IDIOT!" comments from the audience. When the movie was over, the crowd applauded. And it couldn't have been more deserved.

This movie was a masterpiece and I'll most certainly see it again. You'll never have a more sobering experience.

I plan on seeing it a few more times. There is so much to absorb. Moore really lets the images speak for themselves.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Now, that said, I want to say something that's been bugging me. I posted an article about 1.9 million votes in the 2000 election not being counted-about half of which were votes from African Americans. I got one snarky response to it-no offense Carne- and in my mind I kind of equate that to that scene in the movie. It was exactly what I was thinking as I was watching it. No one said anything.

I didn't see it. I'll go look for it and read it.

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

I pity that woman in the film if she is ever found.

If I ever saw her on the street, I'd spit on her. What a waste of life.

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

That's the convention where Moore filmed Nick Berg. That scene was quite disgusting.

It was more than disgusting, it was awe-inspiring. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I didn't think anyone would be so blatant, but they were. Lots of 'em.

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

I plan on seeing it a few more times. There is so much to absorb. Moore really lets the images speak for themselves.

There's a LOT to absorb, which is why I'm confused by people saying he doesn't make his case. He does...tenfold.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by dissention

I didn't see it. I'll go look for it and read it.

It's okay doll. I was just kind of surprised and frustrated at the general lack of response.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

It's okay doll. I was just kind of surprised and frustrated at the general lack of response.

I always leave my mark in EVERY political thread, so thanks for bumping it up.

[dissention]

It's official: Fahrenheit 9/11 is a phenomenon!

http://movies.yahoo.com/movies/featu...oxofficer.html

'Fahrenheit 9/11' Tops North American Box Office
Sunday June 27 11:30 AM PST

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Michael Moore's red-hot documentary "Fahrenheit 9/11" earned more in its first three days of release across North America than his Oscar-winning "Bowling for Columbine" did in its entire run, the film's distributors said on Sunday.

"Fahrenheit 9/11," in which Moore takes aim at President Bush (news - web sites), and the war in Iraq (news - web sites), opened at No. 1 after selling about $21.8 million worth of tickets in the United States and Canada since June 25.

The film opened in two theaters in New York on Wednesday to help build even more media buzz before expanding to a relatively modest 868 theaters two days later. (In contrast, most of the other movies in the top five were playing in more than 2,500 theaters each.)

Including the sales from the head start in New York, the film's total stands at $21.96 million. Moore's previous movie, "Bowling for Columbine," grossed about $21.5 million during its nine-month run, during which it peaked at about 250 theaters, according to Moore.

"This is a testament to Michael Moore. His voice resonates across the country in what I think we can all now fairly describe as America's movie," said Tom Ortenberg, the president of distribution at Lions Gate (news - web sites) Films, which backed the movie.

He said in a conference call that the film played strongly in both Democrat and Republican states, even drawing sell-out crowds in Republican strongholds like Nassau County, New York and Fayetteville, N.C., home of Fort Bragg.

Lions Gate, a unit of Lions Gate Entertainment Corp., partnered on the film's distribution with IFC Films, a unit of Cablevision Systems Corp.'s Rainbow Media Holdings LLC, and Miramax co-chairmen Harvey and Bon Weinstein. The Weinsteins bought the movie's rights with their own money after Miramax parent Walt Disney Co. refused to let them release it under the Miramax banner.

The movie cost about $6 million to make, according to Moore. Additionally, the distributors spent less than $10 million -- a relatively modest sum -- to market the movie, said Ortenberg.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

I posted an article about 1.9 million votes in the 2000 election not being counted-about half of which were votes from African Americans. I got one snarky response to it-no offense Carne- and in my mind I kind of equate that to that scene in the movie. It was exactly what I was thinking as I was watching it. No one said anything. :confused

No offense taken. And while "snarky" may appropriately characterize the tone of my reply in that thread, I hope you didn't miss the point. As I recall, you are one of the people who have continued to insist on the fantasy that Nader lost the election for Gore in 2000. It's fantasy because

1) Al Gore was a ****ty candidate (no need to go into that now).

2) Way too many people had their votes thrown out. As a former reporter, I covered a fair number of elections and one thing I know is that there is always a small percentage of votes that gets spoiled. But in 2000, it was clear to me that too many votes were being thrown out that came from certain contingencies of voters. Without the resources to look into it myself, what that suggested to me was that there was something systematic going on. The report you posted about the 1 million out of 1.9 million spoiled votes having come from blacks surprised me not in the least. All things being equal, the percentage of spoiled black votes would have been less than 20 percent, as opposed to more than half.

But all things are not equal. And the report you posted, though it does not conclusively prove what I've suspected all along, is confirmation of my suspicions.

Ralph Nader didn't give the election to George Bush. It was a combination of a very, very dislikable Democratic candidate with the shennanigans that went on in voting precincts, especially in Florida, that gave the election to the loser. But, you see, true to form, the Democrats didn't even have the guts to do anything about it.