Rejected album before 'Time'

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by Penguin Emeritus

This was always interesting to me. Chris seems like she would be a fairly easy person to get on with IMO. wonder what it was about Dave Mason that she found so annoying that she couldn't bring herself to work with him at all...was he a bit of an *sshole?

--Lis

I’ve heard from Dave Mason fans years ago that he’s kind of an asshole. The article where they interviewed guys from his ‘70s band said he wasn’t much of a people person.

I watched a Facebook live stream interview with Dave and Mick. Mick said he was perfectionist. Dave seemed a little high strung and twitchy. Mick’s book said there were issues between Dave and Bekka and Richard said he left Time because of Dave. Also, John Courage’s exact words to me on the phone were “Dave Mason is an asshole.”

[jmn3]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I’ve heard from Dave Mason fans years ago that he’s kind of an asshole. The article where they interviewed guys from his ‘70s band said he wasn’t much of a people person.

I watched a Facebook live stream interview with Dave and Mick. Mick said he was perfectionist. Dave seemed a little high strung and twitchy. Mick’s book said there were issues between Dave and Bekka and Richard said he left Time because of Dave. Also, John Courage’s exact words to me on the phone were “Dave Mason is an asshole.”

This era of the band is so forgettable but yet also so fascinating. He has got to be a giant asshole. Like Lis said, Christine has to be one of the easiest people in the history of the band to collaborate and get along with. She’s been there and worked with every imaginable combination and always seemed keen to make whatever combination of personalities work. For her to be like, screw this, I hate him - he had to be just awful.

Let’s put it this way, she’d been able to deal with Mick’s nonsense for fifty years. She got on with John after what sounded like it was a tumultuous and at times abusive marriage. She literally up until her late 70’s had been able to get along with both Stevie Nicks AND Lindsey Buckingham - two of the most polarizing and annoying personalities in music. But Dave Mason was a bridge too far!

[HomerMcvie]

He really must be KING of the assh*les.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

He really must be KING of the assh*les.

I mean, she recorded with Danny on her first solo album and on three Fleetwood Mac albums, and he tried to beat Peter with a Les Paul.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I mean, she recorded with Danny on her first solo album and on three Fleetwood Mac albums, and he tried to beat Peter with a Les Paul.

She really was one of the guys. I'll bet she could've taken him.

[Macfan4life]

I dont know if this is true but I read online that some of her beef with Dave may have been connected to her friend's beef with Dave. Steve Winwood and Dave were both in Traffic and had a big falling out and could not stand each other.
You gotta love Chris with what she said. If you remember her online 1995 chat she says the new creation of Fleetwood Mac is really "bizarre". She says Dave is a fine guitar player but would not have been her first choice and he does not fit with the band. I remember at the time how harsh that sounded talking about a current member of the band. But now we know why.
Here is the chat which is fun to look back on. I love the fact she admits listening to Mystery To Me the other night and is one of her favorite albums.

https://www.fleetwoodmac-uk.com/articles/FMart106.htm

[WalkAThinLine.]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

I dont know if this is true but I read online that some of her beef with Dave may have been connected to her friend's beef with Dave. Steve Winwood and Dave were both in Traffic and had a big falling out and could not stand each other.

Winwood has said in interviews that Mason never gelled with the band, as indicated by his sporadic departures from the group and his failure to appear on several songs written by the other members. Here's a quote from Mason's Wikipedia page:

"We all [Winwood, Jim Capaldi and Chris Wood] tended to write together, but Mason would come in with a complete song that he was going to sing and tell us all what he expected us to play. No discussion, like we were his backing group."

[Street_Dreamer]

Christine and Steve Winwood were pretty close, weren't they? I'm not insinuating that they were a couple but they seemed to have a great respect for one another. Winwood did work on Christine's 1984 album too. Besides whatever personal interactions Christine had with Dave, she probably heard tales from Winwood about him which only furthered her dislike of him.

I've never felt that Dave was a good fit for Fleetwood Mac. It always felt like a square peg going into a round hole. Even if Christine didn't have issues toward him, as an artist he didn't fit with the lineage of guitarists in the band. He always came across to me as someone who was a "straight ahead" guitarist. He didn't have the "feel" that Peter, Danny, Jeremy, the Bobs, Lindsey, Rick or even Billy had. I'm far from being knowledgeable about guitarists and their styles but that's how I've always felt.

Dave may have had a history as being in Traffic as well as his success as a solo artist but I don't think his name sold a bunch of tickets or albums for FM. Todd Sharp certainly didn't have a name but he would have been a better choice all around. He already had a history with those in the group sans John and his presence MAY have helped Christine change her mind about touring.

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

I dont know if this is true but I read online that some of her beef with Dave may have been connected to her friend's beef with Dave. Steve Winwood and Dave were both in Traffic and had a big falling out and could not stand each other.
You gotta love Chris with what she said. If you remember her online 1995 chat she says the new creation of Fleetwood Mac is really "bizarre". She says Dave is a fine guitar player but would not have been her first choice and he does not fit with the band. I remember at the time how harsh that sounded talking about a current member of the band. But now we know why.
Here is the chat which is fun to look back on. I love the fact she admits listening to Mystery To Me the other night and is one of her favorite albums.

https://www.fleetwoodmac-uk.com/articles/FMart106.htm

[Murrow]

As I understood it, ALITC was the originally planned title for Time before Warners insisted songs from Chris be included.

But yes I'd be fascinated to know what other songs the Billy/Bekka/Dave lineup recorded.

I gathered around 1993 there was talk of doing an album as a four-piece with Chris and Billy - this lineup had already released Love Shines and Heart of Stone on the 25 Years compilation.

But it all gets very odd between BtM and Time and what happened may depend on who you ask.

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I mean, she recorded with Danny on her first solo album and on three Fleetwood Mac albums, and he tried to beat Peter with a Les Paul.

Given the exceptional quality of Danny’s playing and songwriting right up to the end of his tenure in the band, I assume his colleagues tried to give him as long a leash as possible, until his behavior made it impossible to continue on with them. In his first book, Mick says he was “loath to fire him” even after he refused to play that fateful gig in ‘72 because, in his words, “Danny played so well.”

Mason‘s legacy as a great songwriter and solid bass/guitar player probably would not have been enough for various FM members to endure his personality.

Or, more simply, by 1994-95, Christine had a lot less tolerance for bull****.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

Or, more simply, by 1994-95, Christine had a lot less tolerance for bull****.

Their days of being on top were over... damned if she was going to tolerate the King of the Assh*les for contractual obligations, and a band playing the county fair circuit.

[Penguin Emeritus]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I’ve heard from Dave Mason fans years ago that he’s kind of an asshole. The article where they interviewed guys from his ‘70s band said he wasn’t much of a people person.

I watched a Facebook live stream interview with Dave and Mick. Mick said he was perfectionist. Dave seemed a little high strung and twitchy. Mick’s book said there were issues between Dave and Bekka and Richard said he left Time because of Dave. Also, John Courage’s exact words to me on the phone were “Dave Mason is an asshole.”

lol wow good to know. Jeez, Richard's another easygoing kind of guy, and he couldn't take it either?? if Mason caused such trouble, it would seem he was hardly worth having around. I'll take Richard and Chris over Dave any day. I wasn't impressed with anything he did on Time.

Around what time frame did you know JC?

He had a bit of an assholey reputation himself according to some people lol, he scared the **** out of me and Marty on the day we met John before a show. I saw him coming down the hallway to tell John how many minutes he had left and I mumbled aloud, 'Oh sh*t.' John actually turned around to see what I was referring to and then chuckled.

Then when he came down a second time, I knew we had to wrap it up, John started scratching at his neck and gestured back in JC's direction saying , 'I gotta get back there...' and i was like 'Yess, you better!' JC was the reason I was too afraid to even take out my camera (which was hidden in a false bottom of my big purse...back in the days when you weren't allowed to take cameras into concerts...) and get a picture with John. argh that still irritates me but i thought he'd either take the camera or throw us out!

But I know he was only doing his job. he was a loyal chap. I read somewhere that when he was dying, i think in hospice, they hung fleetwood mac posters around his room because the band had been such a source of pride in his life.

--Lis

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by Penguin Emeritus

lol wow good to know. Jeez, Richard's another easygoing kind of guy, and he couldn't take it either?? if Mason caused such trouble, it would seem he was hardly worth having around. I'll take Richard and Chris over Dave any day. I wasn't impressed with anything he did on Time.

Around what time frame did you know JC?

He had a bit of an assholey reputation himself according to some people lol, he scared the **** out of me and Marty on the day we met John before a show. I saw him coming down the hallway to tell John how many minutes he had left and I mumbled aloud, 'Oh sh*t.' John actually turned around to see what I was referring to and then chuckled.

Then when he came down a second time, I knew we had to wrap it up, John started scratching at his neck and gestured back in JC's direction saying , 'I gotta get back there...' and i was like 'Yess, you better!' JC was the reason I was too afraid to even take out my camera (which was hidden in a false bottom of my big purse...back in the days when you weren't allowed to take cameras into concerts...) and get a picture with John. argh that still irritates me but i thought he'd either take the camera or throw us out!

But I know he was only doing his job. he was a loyal chap. I read somewhere that when he was dying, i think in hospice, they hung fleetwood mac posters around his room because the band had been such a source of pride in his life.

--Lis

Although I never met JC, we were Facebook friends, and(shockingly to me) he even commented on a few of my posts. He seemed very nice from what I experienced. I was really sad when he passed.

But I'm sure when you're herding cats(musicians), you've got to be a little tough.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by Penguin Emeritus

lol wow good to know. Jeez, Richard's another easygoing kind of guy, and he couldn't take it either?? if Mason caused such trouble, it would seem he was hardly worth having around. I'll take Richard and Chris over Dave any day. I wasn't impressed with anything he did on Time.

As I said earlier, that whole period would have been so much different if they had gone with Todd Sharp. I’d love to know how they skipped over him twice, especially when Mick was listening to countless audition tapes.

Another more obvious choice in 1993 would have been Mick Taylor. Bekka singing “Can’t You Hear Me Knocking?” would have been incredible in the set. “Gimme Shelter” as a Bekka-Billy duet would have been mind-blowing.

(Hey, if Lindsey could record Stones covers, Fleetwood Mac should’ve been able to do Stones songs with an ex-Stone.)

Around what time frame did you know JC?

It was just one call in Spring, 1997, maybe a half hour or so.

There was a website called Kiln House that was claiming Bekka, Billy, and Rick were going to be auxiliary players on the tour and would be doing pre- and post-Rumours era songs because it was going to be a 30th Anniversary tour. JC laughed at that! He also dogged on Dave and said that the shows were embarrassing. Something along the lines of “With all of those songwriters, why all the covers?” (Dave Mason made the same complaint, FWIW.)

I wish I could have asked him more, but I didn’t want to be a pest.

Having been a roadie, tour managers have a ton of responsibility and don’t have time be sociable. They’re good peeps, usually.