Break Down of Kiln House

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by snoot

That was more a precursor of sorts to that first solo project PG cranked out later in the year.

I think End Of The Game was already out by the time the Kiln House tour began (with Jeremy). I have a boot from early on that tour that has a backstage interview with Mick, and he talks about Peter's album.

[snoot]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I think End Of The Game was already out by the time the Kiln House tour began (with Jeremy). I have a boot from early on that tour that has a backstage interview with Mick, and he talks about Peter's album.

Yes I think you've got something there, come to think of it. Correction: All that endless cosmic jamming would have been more in line with - call it a taste of, not precursor of - that solo project he just cranked out.

Thanks for keeping me straight on that.

[slipkid]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I think End Of The Game was already out by the time the Kiln House tour began (with Jeremy). I have a boot from early on that tour that has a backstage interview with Mick, and he talks about Peter's album.

Bottoms Up is my favorite track. Green is having a conversation with his guitar.

[doodyhead]

I was referring to Fillmore East at end of PG temp tour of duty that Peter played into the night.

I did not visit the left coast until five years ago, nice place to visit

I did see Fleetwood Mac the last time they were in NY with Jeremy Spencer

as for Kiln House:
Kiln House

I bought this Album when it was first released in US. My first FM album was Then Play On, I wemt back and bought English Rose /dog and dustbin re release as well as a double bundled FM in Chicago. These were released by Mike Vernon to capitalize on the belated press that FM got justt as PG was bolting. I must admit that I was playing catchup as i bought Mayall with Clapton/ and A Hard Road on the same day in 1969. While seeing Clapton/ Page/ Beck/ Hendrix/ Lee/ Bloomfield/ BB King/ Albet King/ freddie King/ Simmonds/ H Mandell/ Garcia/ Winter/ Trower/ Sumlin/ Kreiger/ West(he was a brooklyn local) / Jourma/ Cippolina/ Betts/ Allman/.Stills/ Young/ Townsend/ Richard hompson/ Kalb/ Bishop/ Cropper/ Garcia/ Santana...(did I miss anyone) I had never seen Peter Green live except hearing him once while hanging out at the fillmore east stage entrance on 2/11/70 (for the Greatful Dead Show with Duane Dickey, Peter and Danny).
I thought at the time (just from listening to the madge sessions on then play on that they were a better 1- 2 punch than the allman/betts or garcia/ratdog, bloomfield/bishop, Quicksilver, savoy Brown,or the two from moby grape.

Sooo ...when Kiln House came out I knew that Green was gone but I thought that Danny had such a great tone out of his Goldtop that he could shine on his own. When I hear the Album I was unprepared for what it played like. I had heard Mission Bell on the radio, Hi Ho Silver and Buddy Holly was, well, Buddy Holley.

Nowhere on the previos FM recordings did old school (I am dating myself here) rock and roll appear.

This is the rock this one gets better with age. Spencer has impeccable timing
Station Man we hear in short bursts Dannys guitar tone, nice tune, not very edgy though
Blood On The Foor Spencer at his satirical best
Hi Ho Silver nice rocker good cover
Jewel Eyed Judy Pop here we go (this is for you snoot)
Buddys Song Jeremy got this down good
Earl Gray simmered in the pot too long, but fortells of Dragonfly to come( I also think Dragonfly is Danny's erie best
One Together space filler, nice song
Tell Me All The Things That You Do What I was expecting when I Bought the Album to begin with
Mission Bell Nice Cover, strange ending track

thirtyeight? years later the album stands up as a contiguous whole, is as an album higher on the list than many FM releases with better press

[stubbie7]

Doodyhead:

Like you, my first album by FM was Then Play On. I had to work backwards as well as forwards to catch up. Ended up getting the double release called Black Magic Woman that was nothing more than their first two albums.

I remember, initially, being disappointed with Kiln House. However, after a friend told me that was his favorite FM album I listened closer and it realized it was just different, that is what was throwing me off. As soon as I let the album itself do the talking (instead of my expectations) it grew on me.

Love that album now. Still have my vinyl but have the cd as well.

For my money, the best song on the album is TMATTYD. Danny's riff is just captivating. I think my favorite Jeremy song is Blood on the Floor. By the time I was listening to this album I was into Poco and Pure Prairie League (and many other "hippie/country" bands) so I actually began to appreciate this song as a well written tongue-in-cheek country and western bit of satire. I think it is a great song.

I think what turned me off initially was the Buddy Hollyness of it and now I even get that.

[snoot]

Originally Posted by doodyhead

I thought at the time (just from listening to the madge sessions on then play on that they were a better 1- 2 punch than the allman/betts or garcia/ratdog, bloomfield/bishop, Quicksilver, savoy Brown,or the two from moby grape.

Some still don't get the full impact of just how good a team they were, particularly on the DK side of the equation. Or is it that too many get led by the chain of all those smarter than thou critics?

Ah and I overlooked your brooklyn lad from earlier, Pappalardi's boy, Leslie West! Mississippi Queen still sees radio time even out west.

Originally Posted by stubbie7

For my money, the best song on the album is TMATTYD. Danny's riff is just captivating. I think my favorite Jeremy song is Blood on the Floor. By the time I was listening to this album I was into Poco and Pure Prairie League (and many other "hippie/country" bands) so I actually began to appreciate this song as a well written tongue-in-cheek country and western bit of satire. I think it is a great song.

In the back of my mind I still often think of it as little more than a filler piece (from early impressions), and that tends to stick for some odd reason. But every time I sit down and give it a listen, damn if I don't rediscover what a crafty knock off it is, sung to full effect.

I think what turned me off initially was the Buddy Hollyness of it and now I even get that.

A little Holly, Elvis, Perkins, Lewis, Haley and Owens all rolled up into one! Call it a revisit (and nod) to rockabilly.

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by snoot

A little Holly, Elvis, Perkins, Lewis, Haley and Owens all rolled up into one! Call it a revisit (and nod) to rockabilly.

I'm really surprised that Fleetwood Mac didn't capitalize on some of that Jeremy Spencer rockabilly stuff when Billy Burnette was in the band...that would've been right up his alley.

With Rick Vito & Billy Burnette, they were very close to ressurrecting the Green/Spencer combo. I think that's what appealed to me about that '87-90 lineup; they pretty much could cover the entire Fleetwood Mac history, but, for some reason that escapes me they never really took advantage of that (they did on the "Green" side with Vito, but not the "Spencer" side with Burnette).

[snoot]

Originally Posted by chiliD

I'm really surprised that Fleetwood Mac didn't capitalize on some of that Jeremy Spencer rockabilly stuff when Billy Burnette was in the band...that would've been right up his alley.)

You bring up a great point. That would have been right down his pike indeed. After seeing what Burnette does for JC Fogerty on the touring scene, I couldn't agree more. Shame Fogerty didn't let Billy do even more! [But Fogerty is definitely alpha male, and hard to top on either the stage or in the studio]

With Rick Vito & Billy Burnette, they were very close to ressurrecting the Green/Spencer combo. I think that's what appealed to me about that '87-90 lineup; they pretty much could cover the entire Fleetwood Mac history, but, for some reason that escapes me they never really took advantage of that (they did on the "Green" side with Vito, but not the "Spencer" side with Burnette).

Lost in the Mac's ongoing identity shuffle, trying to cover the Buckingham deficit, while attempting to find a footing and platform all their own. Both are first class guitarists, that goes without saying. I think the only reason they're dismissed as lightly as they are in the larger Mac equation is that they surfaced in the shadow of Lindsey, and all that fame and glory that came before. They weren't really prolific songwriters either, especially Vito, so that didn't help. But I think you're onto something with the Green/Spencer combo revisit, as rockabilly is always cool, especially when graced with a more modern, updated twist.

[snoot]

Originally Posted by doodyhead

as for Kiln House:

I bought this Album when it was first released in US. My first FM album was Then Play On, I wemt back and bought English Rose /dog and dustbin re release as well as a double bundled FM in Chicago. These were released by Mike Vernon to capitalize on the belated press that FM got justt as PG was bolting.

Ah now we're getting somewhere. It's true, they were trying to capitalize on the belated press that FM got due to Green's early trail-blaze and those UK FM hits. But it should be remembered, most of the increasing acceptance of FM stateside early on came from Kiln House and beyond. Kirwan, Welch and McVie's tunes had as much to do with that than anything else. Only the very old guard of fans were into "Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac" at that point (and yet you could always find a respectable handful of them at every concert setting, some quite shocked at Green's omission). You also cannot overlook the FM "name" he basically established earlier -- that was definitely part of bigger picture.

It was considerably different on the European side. The British in particular, but also the Germans, Dutch and Scandinavians, had a harder time letting go of the blues centered FM. Many of them took the loss of Green as a loss of Fleetwood Mac, since they were raised on its blues-rock core from the get-go. Any way you look at it, the USA and Europe were different playing fields altogether. In Europe, PGFM ruled, wherein America, they largely went unnoticed -- especially when compared to other big name British acts of the day.

As time went on of course, and more peeps in the States came to discover FM, it was inevitable some of the old buzz surrounding Green and the early "three guitar front" would come to more people's attention. That's why so many on this side went backwards to discover the Mac's blues core.

Sooo ...when Kiln House came out I knew that Green was gone but I thought that Danny had such a great tone out of his Goldtop that he could shine on his own. When I hear the Album I was unprepared for what it played like. I had heard Mission Bell on the radio, Hi Ho Silver and Buddy Holly was, well, Buddy Holley.

Nowhere on the previos FM recordings did old school (I am dating myself here) rock and roll appear.

Well stated. Mirrors my own feelings at the time, 'cept I had a taste of what might be coming from the live setting(s) I witnessed. Still wasn't sure just how retro it would go.

This is the rock this one gets better with age. Spencer has impeccable timing
Station Man we hear in short bursts Dannys guitar tone, nice tune, not very edgy though
Blood On The Foor Spencer at his satirical best
Hi Ho Silver nice rocker good cover
Jewel Eyed Judy Pop here we go (this is for you snoot)
Buddys Song Jeremy got this down good
Earl Gray simmered in the pot too long, but fortells of Dragonfly to come( I also think Dragonfly is Danny's erie best
One Together space filler, nice song
Tell Me All The Things That You Do What I was expecting when I Bought the Album to begin with
Mission Bell Nice Cover, strange ending track

I'm impressed with your takes, much better than some of your "concessionary" MTM ones imo.

thirtyeight? years later the album stands up as a contiguous whole, is as an album higher on the list than many FM releases with better press.

On the button again (but please, don't bring up all those years now ouch). If only more of those post-75ers would give it a spin! They have no idea what a pleasant surprise lies in store.

PS. Some nice guitarmeisters notched under your "live" belt there. Even Alvin Lee in the mix!

EDIT PS. Jewel Eyed Judy rulez! It's where Mac meet the Beatles V. Never forget that.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by doodyhead

Nowhere on the previos FM recordings did old school (I am dating myself here) rock and roll appear.

Well, and this is borderline minutia, there was the b-side to Man Of The World, called Somebody’s Gonna Get Their Head Kicked In Tonight. Also, there was the self-titled Jeremy Spencer solo album, which is essentially a Fleetwood Mac album (the backing band is Mick, John, and Danny, with Peter making a cameo). So it was there, but it's definitely obscure reference stuff.

[doodyhead]

i must confess that i did not hear man of the world or the b side until years later

Spencers solo album however i did

[snoot]

Originally Posted by slipkid

Bottoms Up is my favorite track. Green is having a conversation with his guitar.

Definitely has some amazing flourishes throughout, but damn if that isn't a lot of aimless rambling too. Throws me for a loop every time. Always wondered if he was high when he recorded it.

I'd be interested in other folks takes on Greenie's The End Of The Game.