What's good for Christine is bad for Lindsey?

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

But, she made the effort to be there. These are two sep. things. She was stretched too thin. LB was pissed and produced her crap into bigger crap. Call it want you want. But, she made the effort and I say kudos to her for it.

What!!?? Are you suggesting his production of her songs was crappy? Come on.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

What!!?? Are you suggesting his production of her songs was crappy? Come on.

If anyone listened to the demos to some of those songs, they'd know that Linds worked a miracle on them.

And then listen to the other stuff she had offered up to the band. It's rather heartbreaking.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

Oh, now it's Lindsey's fault that her contributions were ****ty?

You're losing the argument, pal.

If anything, her contributions showed a lack of effort, but you'll never accept that.

I already admitted her contributions were not stellar, although I think Seven Wonders is next door to stellar My point is whenever anything is great it is all about LB. Yet, he produced WTTRS and WISYA. Shouldn't some of the blame be on him then? But, no one will ever concede that. But, it takes two to tango and Stevie was not up to par. No one is arguing against that. I certainly am not. All I am saying is Stevie made an effort to be there and it was not easy for her to do that. Yet, no one will admit that? Instead, it is Stevie is a lazy so and so, yadda yadda, blah blah blah

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I already admitted her contributions were not stellar, although I think Seven Wonders is next door to stellar My point is whenever anything is great it is all about LB. Yet, he produced WTTRS and WISYA. Shouldn't some of the blame be on him then? But, no one will ever concede that.

Jason, Jason, Jason. Here's the thing: On Tango you're always going to be in a position of weakness when arguing about the quality of the material. Lindsey's and Christine's material was far superior. I'll even concede the point Brian makes that Stevie adds a certain darkness to the album. Unfortunaly, her stuff just isn't good. The production on it, however, is marvelous and makes her material almost palatable.

As I said before, take out Welcome to the Room and When I See You Again, then throw in You and I Part I, and you have a perfect album.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I already admitted her contributions were not stellar, although I think Seven Wonders is next door to stellar My point is whenever anything is great it is all about LB. Yet, he produced WTTRS and WISYA. Shouldn't some of the blame be on him then? But, no one will ever concede that. But, it takes two to tango and Stevie was not up to par. No one is arguing against that. I certainly am not. All I am saying is Stevie made an effort to be there and it was not easy for her to do that. Yet, no one will admit that? Instead, it is Stevie is a lazy so and so, yadda yadda, blah blah blah

WISYA leaves me cold always. Seven Wonders is good, except some of the vocals stink and Stevie didn't write it. He did a stellar job on WTTR...S when you look at what he had to work with...nothing.

But, that's not the issue; the issue is her lack of effort and her resulting musical atrocities.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

Jason, Jason, Jason. Here's the thing: On Tango you're always going to be in a position of weakness when arguing about the quality of the material. Lindsey's and Christine's material was far superior. I'll even concede the point Brian makes that Stevie adds a certain darkness to the album. Unfortunaly, her stuff just isn't good. The production on it, however, is marvelous and makes her material almost palatable.

As I said before, take out Welcome to the Room and When I See You Again, then throw in You and I Part I, and you have a perfect album.

Well, that is the thing I am trying to say. I am not saying LB and CM's material did not, if you will, trump Stevie's contributions of WTTRS and WISYA. I really like Seven Wonders and put it up there with the other songs on the record All I am saying is it would be nice for you and others to recognize that Stevie was cery busy at this point in her life and went out of her way to make this FM record happen. She did not have to do it. But, she did. Granted her contributions were minimal because of her schedule. But, she did not walk away. She made it happen. I do not get why people cannot see that. What more could she have done? Not go to rehab.? Not tour to support RAL?

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by dissention

But, that's not the issue; the issue is her lack of effort and her resulting musical atrocities.

Musical atrocities!? Why hasn't someone brought her to the Sonic Crimes Court to stand trial yet?

[Gailh]

Um aren't we supposed to be talking about Christine?

Why don't we all go and listen to You Are before it's too late!

Gail

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/shows/wogan/

Click on listen again and wait for about 8 minutes

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

I can't argue with that. I only wish Stevie fans would get that. After all, we were originally talking about Christine anyway.

I didn't see any of Stevie's fans starting this particular thread, bud.
It was you, a Lindsey fan, inquiring why "our man" gets dissed for not touring and Christine doesn't.
You felt the need to defend him, and that's cool... but there's no reason to act surprised or somehow superior if other fans also find the need to defend their fave.

Besides... and absolutely no offense meant to Jason here... but no one else even mentioned Stevie in this thread, prior to Jason, who posted in regards to Les' comments that not one else in the band sacrificed anything in order to participate on 'Tango.'
And I only added a few thoughts once he and Les were engaged in their conversation.
It's not at all like hordes of Stevie's "legion of fans" have flocked over here to create a hue and cry over Stevie being treated unfairly.

As far as my other point, I thought I had already explained it well enough.
It has often been alleged that Stevie's fans only love her late-80s/early-90s work out of loyalty or self-delusion.
And I was just curious as to how... if that's so... they can also feel the same material that they love and are deluding themselves into thinking is good, can somehow be uninteresting, mediocre, and a reason to blast Lindsey.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

All I am saying is it would be nice for you and others to recognize that Stevie was cery busy at this point in her life and went out of her way to make this FM record happen.

I know she was busy. I just wish she had gone out of her way to make good music. If she couldn't put her full effort and heart into it, she should've excused herself. And we would've gotten a better record.

Also, she didn't go out of her way to make this FM record happen: Lindsey Buckingham did.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

She did not have to do it. But, she did. Granted her contributions were minimal because of her schedule. But, she did not walk away. She made it happen. I do not get why people cannot see that.

Well, Jason, I understand your point. But here's how I see it: Rather than give the band crap, she could have stayed out and the album would have been better for it. Her stuff drags it down. Now, I know that comment is going to incite the passions of Stevie fans again, but since you asked...

And before you make the popularity argument again, I will say this: I don't care. I'd rather have a record of quality stuff that sells 4,000 copies than one with some mediocre stuff that sells 4 million. Be that as it may, thanks to Lindsey's arrangements and production, Tango is nevertheless a stellar work.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

Musical atrocities!? Why hasn't someone brought her to the Sonic Crimes Court to stand trial yet?

For the same reason that the High Court of Crimes Against Fashion dismissed her case: temporary insanity.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

I know she was busy. I just wish she had gone out of her way to make good music. If she couldn't put her full effort and heart into it, she should've excused herself. And we would've gotten a better record.

Also, she didn't go out of her way to make this FM record happen: Lindsey Buckingham did.

Well, no actually, Stevie did If you just ended a world tour, went immeditely into rehab, and came out of rehab., would you want to run back into the studio with tour ex lover and bandmates still using coke? I would not. So, clearly she made the whatever effort she could.

I do agree that I wish her material was better, with the exception of Seven Wonders, which I think is great.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I didn't see any of Stevie's fans starting this particular thread, bud.

Aaah... I started the thread. But I didn't steer it in the Lindsey v. Stevie direction.

You felt the need to defend him, and that's cool... but there's no reason to act surprised or somehow superior if other fans also find the need to defend their fave.

That's cool, Johnny. My goal was more to understand why Christine's departure was accepted with such calm as opposed to Lindsey's. (OK, and maybe start a little bit of controversy on this board. Consider the source, after all. )

It's not at all like hordes of Stevie's "legion of fans" have flocked over here to create a hue and cry over Stevie being treated unfairly.

He he. Johnny catches me on an exaggeration.

As far as my other point, I thought I had already explained it well enough.
It has often been alleged that Stevie's fans only love her late-80s/early-90s work out of loyalty or self-delusion.
And I was just curious as to how... if that's so... they can also feel the same material that they love and are deluding themselves into thinking is good, can somehow be uninteresting, mediocre, and a reason to blast Lindsey.

I'm still not sure I understand. I presume it is because the premise strikes me as flawed. No one is saying Stevie fans are blasting Lindsey for her subpar work. Eh, I guess I don't get your point. No biggie.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

Well, Jason, I understand your point. But here's how I see it: Rather than give the band crap, she could have stayed out and the album would have been better for it. Her stuff drags it down. Now, I know that comment is going to incite the passions of Stevie fans again, but since you asked...

And before you make the popularity argument again, I will say this: I don't care. I'd rather have a record of quality stuff that sells 4,000 copies than one with some mediocre stuff that sells 4 million. Be that as it may, thanks to Lindsey's arrangements and production, Tango is nevertheless a stellar work.

They would never have allowed FM to release a record without Stevie on it. That argument is a red herring

I think Seven Wonders is great and it did okay, not great, as a single. So, she made some commercial contribution other than just being Stevie Also, I think LL is the best commercial track on the record and it is because all three voices are very apparent and CM wrote a great song to begin with.