Lindsey's women

[glitter_fades]

Originally Posted by shackin'up

How I read this thread (=ledgies' interpretations) is that she wanted to hurt him for a long time after she said goodbye to him. hmm.

why?

No, I don't think she meant it that way. I agree with diss. It was more like Petty's comment: airplane without any headlights.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by glitter_fades

No, I don't think she meant it that way. I agree with diss. It was more like Petty's comment: airplane without any headlights.

Or was it airplane without any radar? Either way, it was spot-on.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

I always thought it to be INCREDIBLY insulting for her to give him an AUTOGRAPHED COPY of her solo album. That was ballsy, to say the least.

Once again, it was not that - she clearly indicated she wrote a bunch of personal things on it and since none of us to my knowledge know what that text said, I think it is wrong to assume what she said was rude in any way, esp., considering many have opined that her letters and such are beautiful -- but to say it was an autographed copy just ignores the truth for your convenience.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by mondaymornin1

Sorry to chime in, but I totally agree here. How many years did the two of them do the horizontal bop???? Seriously, how necessary was an AUTOGRAPHED copy of her solo album, given their relationship and all that goes with it? I can certainly understand her desire to give him a copy and even wish for his approval. But an AUTOGRAPHED copy? C'mon!

According to her, she did not just sign it "Love Stevie Nicks" - she clearly states she wrote a bunch of personal things on it.

In the end, I think she knew that was the only way for her to present it to him and it was important for her to do so. But, people just love to knock her on BS like this.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by shackin'up

Hmmm, she did that? How can you step on your ex-that-normally-arrange-your-songs-and-did-not-wanted-to-be-your-ex's heart more brutally?

How I read this thread (=ledgies' interpretations) is that she wanted to hurt him for a long time after she said goodbye to him. hmm.

why?

Once again, everyone presumes LB was just sooooo innocent and deserved none of what you all apparently assume La Nicks was waiting behind every corner to give out. Some things never change.

[David]

Originally Posted by catinthedark

Though, Lindsey has also complemented her on her poetry - and the way she uses phrasing. He's also spoken about how she uses rhythm to convey a feeling, and she uses repetition in her words, but knows exactly when to stop in order to make the biggest impact. He said it was hard to explain, but it was all complementary, and I can't remember the exact quote, but I remember thinking, yeah, I know exactly what he means.

True, he has waxed positive about her lyrics in recent years -- but you don't find him doling out many pats on the back until the 1997 reconciliation & after. Even his compliments -- the ones you're referring to -- are more along the lines of what Christine has said: Stevie, in spite of herself, manages to score a percentage of the time. That's the overall sense I get.

I feel very keenly & strongly that Stevie's albums, all in all, are not musical artifacts that Lindsey takes much interest in on an aesthetic level. They're simply not his kind of music. There isn't anything on her solo albums in terms of arrangement, orchestration, recording technique or production that could possibly be of much interest to him. Stevie's solo music on "Bella Donna," "The Wild Heart," "Street Angel" & the others is the epitome of West Coast adult-contemporary -- the very stuff that Lindsey has always tried to wrench Fleetwood Mac away FROM (& failing too much of the time).

If you could turn yourself into a fly & buzz on over to Lindsey's house, I doubt you'd see any of Stevie's solo albums on CD -- except the most recent one TISL. Again, that one followed the reconciliation, & Lindsey probably felt more inclined to give it a listen.

But let's face it: despite what he told Stevie about some of those TISL songs being great, do you honestly believe that it was on his Top Albums of 2001 list? No way in hell, Jose. (Also, what do you imagine his response would be if you asked him today to rattle off, without looking at the lyric sheet, a stanza or two from ANY of the songs on TISL?)

'Tain't his thing, her solo music. It's a question of musical taste, which was also at the root of his supposedly nasty comments about Fleetwood Mac circa 1990 - 1995 as well as his "lounge act" comments about Chris & Stevie in 1984.

These aren't "slams" from Lindsey: he wants -- he craves -- music that pushes envelopes on many levels, technical & artistic, & when music doesn't do that, he loses interest (remember his comments about Quarterflash?). He may have guilty pleasures -- we ALL do -- but we sure don't hear about many of them, & I guarantee you that they don't consist of ANYTHING by Heart, Journey, Kansas, Styx, Pat Benatar, REO Speedwagon or Foreigner, ad nauseum.

Much of what I hear is people who are so besotted with Stevie's lyrics & her singing that they don't particularly notice that MUSICALLY her solo albums are mostly restatements (or even rehashes) of conventions, not fresh new ideas.

[David]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Once again, everyone presumes LB was just sooooo innocent and deserved none of what you all apparently assume La Nicks was waiting behind every corner to give out.

I don't. I think he was rather bitter throughout these years about Stevie's fame & -- more important -- her connection with her audience (he wanted that audience to respond to "Tusk"), & his bitterness & sardonicism over it all manifested itself from time to time in rude, sometimes cruel & sometimes petulant behavior.

I think Stevie went from trying to get him to soften up to feeling so exasperated with his attitude that she'd just turn her back on it.

I also think it was one day on, one day off -- that sort of thing. You could see it onstage in those days, too. There must have been times when the two of them shared a laugh or a story or a hug, although as he grew more & more disillusioned with the artistic situation in Fleetwood Mac (much of which had more to do with Mick & the McVies than with Stevie) & as Stevie got more & more stoned, he grew extremely remote from her, & she him.

By the mid 1980s, they probably saw each other or spoke to each other only when the group had an album to make or a tour to prepare for, & even then it was probably just a civil, clipped relationship.

It would be a nearsighted mistake for anyone to think that Stevie was the only thing that was bugging Lindsey in the 1980s. He was dealing with a girlfriend who was also battling drugs, & finding the dream he once had for Fleetwood Mac -- a dream that had him bopping with excitement in 1978 -- dwindling rapidly amid the machinery of its own commercialism.

Anyone who thinks Lindsey spent the 1980s pining for Stevie Nicks is really loony tunes, as far as I'm concerned!

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by David

True, he has waxed positive about her lyrics in recent years -- but you don't find him doling out many pats on the back until the 1997 reconciliation & after. Even his compliments -- the ones you're referring to -- are more along the lines of what Christine has said: Stevie, in spite of herself, manages to score a percentage of the time. That's the overall sense I get.

I feel very keenly & strongly that Stevie's albums, all in all, are not musical artifacts that Lindsey takes much interest in on an aesthetic level. They're simply not his kind of music. There isn't anything on her solo albums in terms of arrangement, orchestration, recording technique or production that could possibly be of much interest to him. Stevie's solo music on "Bella Donna," "The Wild Heart," "Street Angel" & the others is the epitome of West Coast adult-contemporary -- the very stuff that Lindsey has always tried to wrench Fleetwood Mac away FROM (& failing too much of the time).

If you could turn yourself into a fly & buzz on over to Lindsey's house, I doubt you'd see any of Stevie's solo albums on CD -- except the most recent one TISL. Again, that one followed the reconciliation, & Lindsey probably felt more inclined to give it a listen.

But let's face it: despite what he told Stevie about some of those TISL songs being great, do you honestly believe that it was on his Top Albums of 2001 list? No way in hell, Jose. (Also, what do you imagine his response would be if you asked him today to rattle off, without looking at the lyric sheet, a stanza or two from ANY of the songs on TISL?)

'Tain't his thing, her solo music. It's a question of musical taste, which was also at the root of his supposedly nasty comments about Fleetwood Mac circa 1990 - 1995 as well as his "lounge act" comments about Chris & Stevie in 1984.

These aren't "slams" from Lindsey: he wants -- he craves -- music that pushes envelopes on many levels, technical & artistic, & when music doesn't do that, he loses interest (remember his comments about Quarterflash?). He may have guilty pleasures -- we ALL do -- but we sure don't hear about many of them, & I guarantee you that they don't consist of ANYTHING by Heart, Journey, Kansas, Styx, Pat Benatar, REO Speedwagon or Foreigner, ad nauseum.

Much of what I hear is people who are so besotted with Stevie's lyrics & her singing that they don't particularly notice that MUSICALLY her solo albums are mostly restatements (or even rehashes) of conventions, not fresh new ideas.

True words my friend - true words. They, to me, then beg the question of why LB came back after Tusk. I draw three conclusions from that:

1. He wanted to be near Stevie as he never really got over her, which was been proved a little true given all the confessions from 97 on.

2. He thinks all of the members of FM are talented individuals that enhance him and his music in some significant way - and I think he never really stopped thinking that - it was just the strife that got to him.

3. He knew that his brilliant music was perhaps too quirky to be a huge selling entity and he liked his lifestyle too much to sacrifice popularity for it.

Those are generalized statements, but I think there is some truth in all three.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by David

I don't. I think he was rather bitter throughout these years about Stevie's fame & -- more important -- her connection with her audience (he wanted that audience to respond to "Tusk"), & his bitterness & sardonicism over it all manifested itself from time to time in rude, sometimes cruel & sometimes petulant behavior.

I think Stevie went from trying to get him to soften up to feeling so exasperated with his attitude that she'd just turn her back on it.

I also think it was one day on, one day off -- that sort of thing. You could see it onstage in those days, too. There must have been times when the two of them shared a laugh or a story or a hug, although as he grew more & more disillusioned with the artistic situation in Fleetwood Mac (much of which had more to do with Mick & the McVies than with Stevie) & as Stevie got more & more stoned, he grew extremely remote from her, & she him.

By the mid 1980s, they probably saw each other or spoke to each other only when the group had an album to make or a tour to prepare for, & even then it was probably just a civil, clipped relationship.

It would be a nearsighted mistake for anyone to think that Stevie was the only thing that was bugging Lindsey in the 1980s. He was dealing with a girlfriend who was also battling drugs, & finding the dream he once had for Fleetwood Mac -- a dream that had him bopping with excitement in 1978 -- dwindling rapidly amid the machinery of its own commercialism.

Anyone who thinks Lindsey spent the 1980s pining for Stevie Nicks is really loony tunes, as far as I'm concerned!

I agree (once again and its a little scary ) - - I do think though that LB never really got over La Nicks and vice versa, though I do think the mutual pining, curiosity, etc., went away for long periods of time. I think this because of the interaction on stage that I saw during the Mirage tour and the post-reconciliation comments. In the end, I am happy they are happy and I hope mutually so and on whatever level they found.

[catinthedark]

Originally Posted by David

True, he has waxed positive about her lyrics in recent years -- but you don't find him doling out many pats on the back until the 1997 reconciliation & after. Even his compliments -- the ones you're referring to -- are more along the lines of what Christine has said: Stevie, in spite of herself, manages to score a percentage of the time. That's the overall sense I get.

I feel very keenly & strongly that Stevie's albums, all in all, are not musical artifacts that Lindsey takes much interest in on an aesthetic level. They're simply not his kind of music. There isn't anything on her solo albums in terms of arrangement, orchestration, recording technique or production that could possibly be of much interest to him. Stevie's solo music on "Bella Donna," "The Wild Heart," "Street Angel" & the others is the epitome of West Coast adult-contemporary -- the very stuff that Lindsey has always tried to wrench Fleetwood Mac away FROM (& failing too much of the time).

If you could turn yourself into a fly & buzz on over to Lindsey's house, I doubt you'd see any of Stevie's solo albums on CD -- except the most recent one TISL. Again, that one followed the reconciliation, & Lindsey probably felt more inclined to give it a listen.

But let's face it: despite what he told Stevie about some of those TISL songs being great, do you honestly believe that it was on his Top Albums of 2001 list? No way in hell, Jose. (Also, what do you imagine his response would be if you asked him today to rattle off, without looking at the lyric sheet, a stanza or two from ANY of the songs on TISL?)

'Tain't his thing, her solo music. It's a question of musical taste, which was also at the root of his supposedly nasty comments about Fleetwood Mac circa 1990 - 1995 as well as his "lounge act" comments about Chris & Stevie in 1984.

These aren't "slams" from Lindsey: he wants -- he craves -- music that pushes envelopes on many levels, technical & artistic, & when music doesn't do that, he loses interest (remember his comments about Quarterflash?). He may have guilty pleasures -- we ALL do -- but we sure don't hear about many of them, & I guarantee you that they don't consist of ANYTHING by Heart, Journey, Kansas, Styx, Pat Benatar, REO Speedwagon or Foreigner, ad nauseum.

Much of what I hear is people who are so besotted with Stevie's lyrics & her singing that they don't particularly notice that MUSICALLY her solo albums are mostly restatements (or even rehashes) of conventions, not fresh new ideas.

I completely agree with you, my friend. One can recognize talent and define it as such and opine about why it is such - without necessarily liking it. I can say that Celine Dion has talent and a beautiful, unique voice. Are her CDs on my shelf? Or in my top 10? No way. Ditto many other artists. Just cause I don't like 'em doesn't mean they aren't talented.

All I was saying, in response to someone else's post that I can't remember right now, is that Lindsey had in fact complemented her writing abilities.

[catinthedark]

Originally Posted by glitter_fades

If Stevie fans think LB was rude to show disinterest when she gave him that album, what do you think it was like for him to have to take it? To me, she was being extremely insensitive not only handing him BD while they were working together, but made matters worse by telling the world of her percieved slight when he reacted in a way she didn't understand. Here is my new solo record I made without any help from you. Nevermind I slept with at least a half dozen men who did help me. I hope you like it anyway. I gave you my autograph and wrote some nice things, so don't be jealous of me if it becomes a hit and I have to do more without you and sleep with the rest of the music industry in preparation for my follow up albums. I who never said goodbye as I slipped away...but I gave you my #1 album to remember me by.

Come on. Even you must see that you're being a tad unfair there. You accuse others on this board of seeing Stevie through rose-coloured glasses, and interpreting things as being there when they aren't? Look at what you just did here.

You have no idea if that was the sentiment with which she gave it to him. She didn't do a solo album to spite Fleetwood Mac; she did a solo album because she had songs she wanted to record and release and she knew they wouldn't necessarily have a home on a FM album. She should be crucified for wanting to express herself?

She slept with other guys after Lindsey; Lindsey slept with other women after her. It's what people do when they break up.

The album was not number 1 when she gave it to him, so there's no way she did it to rub that in his face. As she has said, she gave it to him hot off the presses, probably before it was even released. She didn't just autograph it, for God's sake. She probably wrote something very nice. Hasn't anyone ever given you a photo of themselves that they wrote on and sign?

[henryscutter]

Originally Posted by dissention

Chances are she had enough smarts to know that her solo career went over like a lead balloon to Lindsey and the rest of the band in the first place. She practically opened the front door and invited conflict by waltzing into the studio that day with an AUTOGRAPHED copy of her hot-off-the-press solo album to dole out to him. The whole autograph thing strikes me as incredibly tasteless and tacky. If she wasn't smart enough to realize that he probably found it insulting, then she certainly does embody what Petty once said about her being an airplane without any headlights.

I don't think she gave it to him like "I am a star here is my autograph". More like signing a note to somebody. She probably stroked his ego quite a bit;could'nt have done it without you blah blah blah. I think it was a classy thing to do. She was looking for approval from him (which she seems to need for some reason) He wasnt able to accept the gesture because of his hard feelings, whatever they may be. End of story.

As far as how the rest of the band should feel about her making a solo album? I don't see the problem. Mick and Lindsey had the freedom to make one, why should she be any different. Did they want her to always be dependant on them to get her songs recorded. The attitude seemed to be "we are the real musicians in the band and you are lucky we took you in the package deal". After dealing with their snobby attitude for so long I say she was pretty damn smart to go solo

[glitter_fades]

Originally Posted by catinthedark

Come on. Even you must see that you're being a tad unfair there. You accuse others on this board of seeing Stevie through rose-coloured glasses, and interpreting things as being there when they aren't? Look at what you just did here.

You have no idea if that was the sentiment with which she gave it to him. She didn't do a solo album to spite Fleetwood Mac; she did a solo album because she had songs she wanted to record and release and she knew they wouldn't necessarily have a home on a FM album. She should be crucified for wanting to express herself?
She slept with other guys after Lindsey; Lindsey slept with other women after her. It's what people do when they break up.

The album was not number 1 when she gave it to him, so there's no way she did it to rub that in his face. As she has said, she gave it to him hot off the presses, probably before it was even released. She didn't just autograph it, for God's sake. She probably wrote something very nice. Hasn't anyone ever given you a photo of themselves that they wrote on and sign?

Crucified? The way Stevie and some fans view the Bella Donna incident, you'd think it did amount to a crucifixion even though Stevie's own words show it was quite the contrary. It appears Stevie felt more insulted than I believe was warranted under the circumstances. If she had looked at the situation from another view, she might have thought twice about how her gesture would be received, and if it didn't go according to her expectations, the least she could have done was refrain from talking about it in public. She did feel the need to talk about it and that's her right. She never forgave him for it. Hey, if the cross fits.

Is the sarcasm emoticon just another smiley? Seems you haven't followed a thing I've said. In another post I said those bold face words were not the sentiments with which she gave it to him. My post was only an illustration of how someone looking at the situation differently could see her gesture as insensitive. You don't have to believe it was insensitive. Stevie didn't either. I think it was.

You don't have to believe there is a difference between her sleeping with everybody he knew while looking for help with her solo career, and him getting laid by random nobodies and a few steady girlfriends after they broke up. He didn't sleep with her close freinds and working associates. He didn't go looking for another woman to share his musical conquests along with his bed, unless you count Chris (just kidding) then return to her with the results expecting to be commended for a job well done.

LB did a lot of rude and insensitive things, too. I don't discount any of it. For instance, I think LB was rude to take his girlfriends to the studio if he had them around Stevie. It was one of those tit for tat things they both engaged in that made the working situation hard for eveyone. Both were self-centered and childish, but if you want to think Stevie always only meant well and LB only meant harm, you're entitled.

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Once again, everyone presumes LB was just sooooo innocent and deserved none of what you all apparently assume La Nicks was waiting behind every corner to give out. Some things never change.

You haven't read my post. I will be the last one to say that LB was innocent. I'm normally not into fanprojection on the personal life-level (only on the musical ) . i concluded that out of the discussion that is totally subjective and by people that don't know sh*t about what happened between those two. But If you know your ex has been dumped by YOU, maybe for the BEST reasons in the world, I think it's incredible insensitive to give him something you made without him, when you know he's green from jealousy and bitter by this "second break-up". You don't have to be a psychologist to see that it is a big risk in hurting feelings. Even if it said " dear lindsey thanks for guiding me with all your guts to the point where I got the selfesteem to try it on my own, couldn't have done it if you weren't there the last ten years, thanks with love, Stevie" he would read " thanks mate, I'm so famous thanks to you that I don't need you anymore. On a personal level the break-up brought us wealth, no I leave you again and do it all over on the fame-level. Without you".

It's not that Stevie MEANT it that way, but it is incredible stupid to assume he would be proud of you at that moment in time and with their history. I agree, she could NOT have done good in any way at that time. Only by not bringing out a solo-album and stick to the Mac.

I get a little sick by the assumption that I would defend LB in any situation because I'd not. I think he's a touchy, whiney, neurotic and selfindulged prick besides a warm and intelligent human being.
And a genious in his art, yes. Now I want you to be as reasonable about your " La Nicks" as I am about LB, too.

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by Lux

Get over it Jason, she made a error in judgement. If I were him I'd have dealt her one. If I were him I would also have issues with narcissism.

wow, some posts later Lux said it in thirtyone words.