Coultergeist gets her head handed to her

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

(what Iraq city has been destroyed today do to some "extremist" driving a bomb through a US military base, etc...).

Nope. What Iraqi national wants the US occupation to end so he/she is part of a resistance force? This "insurgent" bull**** is a euphemism concocted for the folks at home.
If someone came into your country and shut off the electricity and water and bombed the living daylights out of you, are you telling me you wouldn't fight back?

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

They were savages, regardless of where they came from or what they believed.

Some of them trained on our military bases.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Some of them trained on our military bases.

I know, which is very sad. Others learned how to fly at schools here in America!

which leads to my thought of...

CLOSE OFF THE BORDERS!

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

I know, which is very sad. Others learned how to fly at schools here in America!

which leads to my thought of...

CLOSE OFF THE BORDERS!

It was an inside job.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Some of them trained on our military bases.

Well, not only that - but if you look at the reasons why they do not like us, it is hard to say they are not somewhat justified in their dislike (not the violence though - the extremist are wrong to do that and they should stop).

I mean we have been raping their lands and becoming HUGELY rich while the vast majority of them live in poverty and horrible poverty at that. We suport regimes that tolerate us and our oil lust and stifle any other regimes (can you say Iraq). Then, there is a two or so thousand year history of warring with the "Holy Land" in the name of Jesus when what was really wanted was, as now, their treasure - then it was holy artifacts - now its oil. Then, Israel is created and bankrolled by the US and they are, according to the UN, far from a friendly neighbor - in fact some would call Israel a terrorist state - and there is no end in sight to the violence there (this is Israel in general and not all Israelis or Israel supporters). Then, we have religious crackpots here in the US that want Israel to succeed at any cost because Jesus cannot come again until the Jews hae returned to Zion and the Temple rebuilt - so they encourage Israel. Finally, we invade Iraq and let the country run wild and have the gall to say it is not our fault and that blowing up more innocent civilians is A OK because Democracy is what they need even though they are too dumb to know it.

If any nation did ONE of these to the US, they would be nuked with little to no hesitation.

Yet, do we try to find a way to stop the foregoing bad acts. No, we do not. We just act chocked when those people act up and dare to raise their hand against us - and we reply in kind, which will solve nothing.

Food for Thought.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, not only that - but if you look at the reasons why they do not like us, it is hard to say they are not somewhat justified in their dislike (not the violence though - the extremist are wrong to do that and they should stop).

I mean we have been raping their lands and becoming HUGELY rich while the vast majority of them live in poverty and horrible poverty at that. We suport regimes that tolerate us and our oil lust and stifle any other regimes (can you say Iraq). Then, there is a two or so thousand year history of warring with the "Holy Land" in the name of Jesus when what was really wanted was, as now, their treasure - then it was holy artifacts - now its oil. Then, Israel is created and bankrolled by the US and they are, according to the UN, far from a friendly neighbor - in fact some would call Israel a terrorist state - and there is no end in sight to the violence there (this is Israel in general and not all Israelis or Israel supporters). Then, we have religious crackpots here in the US that want Israel to succeed at any cost because Jesus cannot come again until the Jews hae returned to Zion and the Temple rebuilt - so they encourage Israel. Finally, we invade Iraq and let the country run wild and have the gall to say it is not our fault and that blowing up more innocent civilians is A OK because Democracy is what they need even though they are too dumb to know it.

If any nation did ONE of these to the US, they would be nuked with little to no hesitation.

Yet, do we try to find a way to stop the foregoing bad acts. No, we do not. We just act chocked when those people act up and dare to raise their hand against us - and we reply in kind, which will solve nothing.

Food for Thought.

And people actually doubt we will be in Iran? I just want to scream WAKE UP PEOPLE!

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

It was an inside job.

Yes it was, but they had to get INTO the Country to make it an INSIDE job!

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

Yes it was, but they had to get INTO the Country to make it an INSIDE job!

I don't think we're talking about the same thing.

[irishgrl]

If any nation did ONE of these to the US, they would be nuked with little to no hesitation.

It's so enraging to even imagine. You're right that if a nation did one of these things to the US, the uproar would be phenomenal, yet they're not allowed the same response.

Actually, the WTC comes to mind, and we didnt nuke anyone.....so I guess thats a moot point, eh? personally, I am all FOR closing the borders. Living in CA, we deal with issues of illegal aliens all the time and our Public Assistance funds are more and more being used to help these people who arent even supposed to be here! While our own kids are increasingly denied!

I think it highly hypocritical that people badmouth the US but its the first place they think of coming when things get rotten in their own lands.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by Lux

I think it would detrimentally hypocrtical to invade nations on the grounds that they are ruled by fascist regimes, or to openly criticise these regimes and claim to act with sympathy for its citizens and yet to deny these people the freedom to seek asylum. My government was oh-so critical of the Taliban regime, used the plight of its women to warm us to their agenda and yet refused entry to refugees fleeing that regime. Um....knock knock, anyone in there?

I think that when people are forced into desperate situations, partially caused by the actions and policies of the US government, then it's not hypocritical of people to criticise the US and also seek asylum there. I would have no trouble allowing government-bashing East Timorese people into Australia. We owe it to them if it is their desire.

Closing the borders is one of the most inhumane policies I can think of.

I see we are comparing apples and oranges: you are speaking of situations where one country CREATES the dire situation and the people in the affected country try to move elsewhere. For the record I dont condone what the US does in many other nations. But, as I said, no one consulted me!

I am speaking of closing borders in general. We share borders north and south and the southern border is problematic. We in the US are inundated by illegal aliens flooding our public assistance programs, especially here in CA.
people who arent born here yet have the right to our tax dollars? or our medical assistance? It seems grossly unfair that children who are born here have less right to assistance than those whose parents ONLY came here for the free medical (to pay for their babies) or cash aid or foodstamps. THAT is my point. We need to close our borders to stop this hemorrhaging influx.
That isnt inhumane at all. It merely recognizes that resources are finite and charity should begin at HOME.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by Lux

I have no idea how it works over there but perhaps instead of sending them away there should be stricter criteria for benefits, involving obligated work efforts. I'm of the belief that the wealthier nations should act to help those whose plight is beyond what we experience in the developed world. Whether we drilled their oil fields or not, I don't believe that those in need of refuge should be turned away without question.

Actually the problem is, there is only a finite amount of money available for assistance, and the population is artifically growing because of these illegal aliens. Persons who apply for citizenship are a different matter. Persons who come ONLY to get benefits and then go back home once the host country has paid for their newborn's birth should be stopped. period.

Also, you should know that the US DOES help distressed families whose plight is our fault, the most notable example being the Hmongs, from Laos and Cambodia. These peoples, farmers mostly, helped our troops during the Vietnam war and as a result were severely punished by the Khmer Rouge for doing so. The US Government made a deal with the Laotians and Hmong peoples that any persons who can prove they assisted (they served in their military at that time) are welcome to come over and live, and many of the normal aid requirements are waived for them. In the town where I work, there is a growing Hmong community (also Sudanese btw) who are settling. These people have HUGE families and more come every day as they get the money together to bring over more of their number. Its not unusual to have 10 or more family members all in one household....most of the time, mom or dad or both are on SSI, and one or more of the family members works for an in-home healthcare organization earning $$$ taking care of mom/dad. The good news is, these people WILL work, and many of the young go on into college and become employed in Public agencies providing translation services for the growing Hmong community. THEY are one good example of when asylum WORKS. Asylum is completely different from what I am talking about.
The other incidents I am talking about are when outsiders illegally take advantage of services they have no right to and yet we taxpayers foot the bill. THAT has to STOP.

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

I guess I should start tacking the "IMO" onto the end of those kind of statements.

You say that often and it seems to be sarcastic, but I don't think it's a bad idea. When I'm not sure of something and suspect that it is more so my opinion than an understood fact, I add the IMO because I certainly realize that I don't know everything, unlike Coulter, who can just say "I think you're wrong" thirty times and then it doesn't matter if she's wrong.

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by Lux

Of course you only see these extremist Muslims. Nobody's going to fill the nightly news with images of peaceful Muslims doing their laundry and whatnot. Does logic ever occur to you?

[dissention]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

I see we are comparing apples and oranges: you are speaking of situations where one country CREATES the dire situation and the people in the affected country try to move elsewhere. For the record I dont condone what the US does in many other nations. But, as I said, no one consulted me!

I am speaking of closing borders in general. We share borders north and south and the southern border is problematic. We in the US are inundated by illegal aliens flooding our public assistance programs, especially here in CA.
people who arent born here yet have the right to our tax dollars? or our medical assistance? It seems grossly unfair that children who are born here have less right to assistance than those whose parents ONLY came here for the free medical (to pay for their babies) or cash aid or foodstamps. THAT is my point. We need to close our borders to stop this hemorrhaging influx.
That isnt inhumane at all. It merely recognizes that resources are finite and charity should begin at HOME.

Maybe instead of going to the extreme degree of actually sealing the border, California should implement stricter qualifications for public assistance. I don't think it's right to deny anyone health care, food, a job, or a place to live, regardless of their citizenship, but if the issue lights a fire under the asses of so many Californians, they should start mobilizing and try to change something instead of sitting around and bitching that someone from the "South of the border" got their kids' food stamps.

Regardless of where you were born, be it Mexico or the United States, no life is more important than another and to say that US citizens should have access to good healthcare (that's kind of an oxymoron these days in America) and food while people from impoverished nations suffer from such a lack of both is pretty shocking to me. Heaven forbid if one of us went over to a foreign country and were refused healthcare, then I'm sure people would change their tune pretty damn quickly.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

Also, you should know that the US DOES help distressed families whose plight is our fault, the most notable example being the Hmongs, from Laos and Cambodia. These peoples, farmers mostly, helped our troops during the Vietnam war and as a result were severely punished by the Khmer Rouge for doing so. The US Government made a deal with the Laotians and Hmong peoples that any persons who can prove they assisted (they served in their military at that time) are welcome to come over and live, and many of the normal aid requirements are waived for them.

The US government also invaded states on the West Coast during WWII, gathered up thousands upon thousands of Japanese, gutted entire neighborhoods of them, seized all of their assets, and put them into "internment camps." In your state of California, they passed a law in the earlier part of the last century that prohibited Asians from owning land (it's been rescinded, obviously).

For every good thing this country does, it turns around and commits a despicable act. I find it rather sickening that this country can preach about human rights and bigotry and what is good for the human race when it has had a hand in some of the most atrocious things I can think of. This country is tops when it does something good, but it's the pits when it doesn't. And the rest of the world can see the hypocrisy for what it is.