The Problem with "Time"

[holidayroad]

[QUOTE=chriskisn;844986]There wasn't any problem with Time. The problem was with the narrow minded Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham fans who didn't give the new lineup the chance it deserved. Oh, that and the absence of Rick Vito.

I also never cared for this comment because I feel that it assumes that if you like the Rumours line-up better, then you are only a fan of Stevie and Lindsey. Lindsey is my favorite, but Christine has always been my second favorite, far surpassing Stevie. Not that I'm not a Stevie fan, I am! I liked Behind the Mask reasonably well. I think Billy Burnette fit pretty well with Chris and Stevie. I like Rick Vito's solo work better than his work on BTM. As for Time, it has it's good moments, but the cohesive sound that should go with an album just wasn't there. As an album, it's fine, as a FMac album.....well, I agree with the person who posted before me, it just doesn't work.

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by holidayroad

As an album, it's fine, as a FMac album....., it just doesn't work.

Pretty much my sentiments about the 1975 Fleetwood Mac album.

My comment after first hearing it...."WTF is THIS?"

To me, Time sounds MORE like a "Fleetwood Mac" album in 1995 than the 1975 album did in 1975.

[holidayroad]

Originally Posted by chiliD

Pretty much my sentiments about the 1975 Fleetwood Mac album.

My comment after first hearing it...."WTF is THIS?"

To me, Time sounds MORE like a "Fleetwood Mac" album in 1995 than the 1975 album did in 1975.

I can understand that after having Bob in FMac for so long, that the change to Lindsey and Stevie would be a huge difference.

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by chriskisn

There wasn't any problem with Time. The problem was with the narrow minded Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham fans who didn't give the new lineup the chance it deserved. Oh, that and the absence of Rick Vito.

Originally Posted by holidayroad

I also never cared for this comment...

Originally Posted by TheWILDheart

I kind of resent this comment slightly. ..

TheWILDheart you'd be too young to remember this but holidayroad might, that when Time was released, all that forums that dealt with FM contained was people complaining that Bekka was a poor replacement to Stevie, that Mick and John should not use the FM name without S&L, etc.

Sure disagree with my comment, but it is funny that people keep saying that Time doesn't sound like Fleetwood Mac. I've yet to find that elusive "Fleetwood Mac" sound. Is it Peter Green? Danny Kirwan? Bob Welch? Christine McVie or Buckingham Nicks? Or perhaps something else completely.

I've spent the best part of the past one and half decades defending this album, especially Bekka Bramlett, forgive me for being slightly cynical

[sjpdg]

Any opinions on "These Strange Times" from Mick?

Personally, I find it interesting to listen to. Sort of a personal retrospective of his career with FM up to that time. Also seems to explore faith as well. Loss of faith, faith regained.

Certainly not a great song that should go down in history or anything. I'm not that big a fan of it! I just think it's an interesting piece of material and am curious to see what others think of it.

Any other thoughts?

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by sjpdg

Any opinions on "These Strange Times" from Mick?

Personally, I find it interesting to listen to. Sort of a personal retrospective of his career with FM up to that time. Also seems to explore faith as well. Loss of faith, faith regained.

Certainly not a great song that should go down in history or anything. I'm not that big a fan of it! I just think it's an interesting piece of material and am curious to see what others think of it.

Any other thoughts?

Its a track I skip every time...although I have to admit compared to the Lizard People single its fantastic. What annoys me is that it isn't a song and it isn't poetry, it falls somewhere between. Either read it like a poem or sing it like a song, don't try to do both.

[TrueFaith77]

Originally Posted by sjpdg

Any opinions on "These Strange Times" from Mick?

Personally, I find it interesting to listen to. Sort of a personal retrospective of his career with FM up to that time. Also seems to explore faith as well. Loss of faith, faith regained.

Certainly not a great song that should go down in history or anything. I'm not that big a fan of it! I just think it's an interesting piece of material and am curious to see what others think of it.

Any other thoughts?

I love "These Strange Times." It just SOUNDS so gooood. And the choir vocals in the background. Beautiful. I think it's so moving; Mick's appraisal of his life also provides an emotional history shared in many ways by us Fleetwood Mac fans: new or old. And it comes directly from the SOUND of Fleetwood Mac, the man who gave the band its name, and the man who held it together. And, as the song reveals, he did it out of LOVE.

ETA: Fortunately, Rumours (my all-time favorite album) also provided for me an entrance into this history -- as it did for many others. I may disagree with chiliD regarding that album's value as art and as a phenomenon, but I appreciate his passionate defenses of Time and his perspective on Fleetwood Mac as a fan from the beginning.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by TrueFaith77

I love "These Strange Times." It just SOUNDS so gooood. And the choir vocals in the background. Beautiful. I think it's so moving; Mick's appraisal of his life also provides an emotional history shared in many ways by us Fleetwood Mac fans: new or old. And it comes directly from the SOUND of Fleetwood Mac, the man who gave the band its name, and the man who held it together. And, as the song reveals, he did it out of LOVE.

I don't like it as an album track, but I like the references in it. I like the little puzzle.

Michele

[TrueFaith77]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I don't like it as an album track, but I like the references in it. I like the little puzzle.

Michele

I think it's a perfect album closer -- and it holds together the disparate elements of the album. It's what makes Time, ultimately, cohesive.

[holidayroad]

I've been thinking about this thread a lot. I really don't think that, just because someone did not love Time as a body of work,that they are against a Fleetwood Mac w/o Lindsey and Stevie. I like a lot of members like Danny Kirwan and Bob Welch who were there before Lindsey&Stevie. I like Billy Burnette a lot too. I bought Time because I felt I should give it a chance and also to support my favorite band. It has it's good moments. I liked Behind the Mask a lot better, not because of Stevie, but mostly because of Christine and Billy's songs together. I felt that in Time, Bekka and Billy were already singing as if they were a seperate duo. that worked later,but not when you're trying to make a group effort. I also noticed in this thread people saying they wish Rumours had never existed. I have at times felt that way. It's a great album, but not so amazing that it should be held as the high standard of what Fleetwood Mac can accomplish.I agree that Rumours was necesssary in the fact that it made Fleetwood Mac a household name, but I also feel that Rumours has held Fleetwood Mac back in terms of what they can do that will be seen as "commercially successful."

[David]

Originally Posted by TrueFaith77

I love "These Strange Times." It just SOUNDS so gooood. And the choir vocals in the background. Beautiful. I think it's so moving; Mick's appraisal of his life also provides an emotional history shared in many ways by us Fleetwood Mac fans: new or old.

It's a beautiful experience, that track. It makes me sad when I listen to it, but I listen to it on repeat when I'm in that band nostalgia mood. The track makes me love Mick as a person. I empathize with him, & keenly feel his wistfulness & sadness & also his hope & his fond memories.

And it comes directly from the SOUND of Fleetwood Mac, the man who gave the band its name, and the man who held it together. And, as the song reveals, he did it out of LOVE.

Yes, indeed. And musically of course it employs the four voicings of the Bach Fugue 17 in Ab from the WTC. Mick isn't afraid to bring old art & new art together in moving panoply.

[chiliD]

Sure, Time isn't the "cohesive" album it could've been. The alternate running order I painstakingly culled helps that a bit (see below)...but, there's also the history of how Time came about that added to the disjointedness that it became.

(Sorry to be redundant, but there still a few people who don't know this)

The original album that Fleetwood Mac submitted to the record company was titled Another Link In The Chain and was scheduled to be released in either November or December 1994 (in time for the Christmas rush). It was done by the then TOURING Fleetwood Mac band (no Christine McVie)...all Billy, Bekka & Dave tunes. It wasn't until the record company used a "small print" clause in FMac's contract with something about CONTRACTUALLY Christine McVie had to be involved, that they shelved the original album and went back in the studio to add Christine's tunes and revamp the album that was released in October 1995 that we now know as Time.

(WB did a similar thing with Eric Clapton's 1985 album Behind The Sun...rejecting it and making Clapton record a number of new, record company supplied, songs, before they would ok its release...one of which was the song "Something's Happening" with one Lindsey Buckingham on acoustic guitar)

My "alternate" Time running order:

I DO
TALKIN' TO MY HEART
I WONDER WHY
WINDS OF CHANGE
SOONER OR LATER
DREAMING THE DREAM

NIGHTS IN ESTORIL
NOTHING WITHOUT YOU
BLOW BY BLOW
I GOT IT IN FOR YOU
HOLLYWOOD (SOME OTHER KIND OF TOWN)
THESE STRANGE TIMES
ALL OVER AGAIN

[TrueFaith77]

Originally Posted by chiliD

The original album that Fleetwood Mac submitted to the record company was titled Another Link In The Chain and was scheduled to be released in either November or December 1994 (in time for the Christmas rush). It was done by the then TOURING Fleetwood Mac band (no Christine McVie)...all Billy, Bekka & Dave tunes. It wasn't until the record company used a "small print" clause in FMac's contract with something about CONTRACTUALLY Christine McVie had to be involved, that they shelved the original album and went back in the studio to add Christine's tunes and revamp the album that was released in October 1995 that we now know as Time.

I know this has been asked before, but does anyone know the original tracklist of Another Link? We'll probably never get to hear it -- though it'd be a fascinating two-disc rerelease if/when the Mac catalogue ever gets the full treatment. Sometimes these unreleased, supressed albums do eventually see the light of day (such as Associates' Glamour Chase).

For visual contrast, here is the actual Time tracklist (from wiki):

1. "Talkin' to My Heart" (Billy Burnette, Deborah Allen, Rafe VanHoy) – 4:54
2. "Hollywood (Some Other Kind of Town)" (Christine McVie, Eddy Quintela) – 5:43
3. "Blow by Blow" (Dave Mason, John Cesario, Mark Holden) – 4:24
4. "Winds of Change" (Kit Hain) – 4:26
5. "I Do" (C. McVie, Quintela) – 4:25
6. "Nothing Without You" (Delaney Bramlett, Doug Gilmore, Bekka Bramlett) – 3:06
7. "Dreamin' the Dream" (B. Bramlett, Burnette) – 3:43
8. "Sooner or Later" (C. McVie, Quintela) – 5:40
9. "I Wonder Why" (Dave Mason, Frankie Previte, Tom Fuler) – 4:28
10. "Nights in Estoril" (C. McVie, Quintela) – 4:45
11. "I Got It in for You" (Burnette, Deborah Allen) – 4:08
12. "All Over Again" (C. McVie, Quintela) – 3:32
13. "These Strange Times" (Mick Fleetwood, Ray Kennedy) – 7:04

[Matthew]

And my Time would be something like this

1. Blue Denim
2. Talkin´ To My Heart
3. Sooner Or Later
4. Honey Love
5. Love Is Like A River
6. Walk Another Mile
7. Rose Garden
8. Nights In Estoril
9. Intuition
10. Poor Souls In Love
11. Street Angel
12. All Over Again

[HejiraNYC]

I think it's ridiculous to wish that the Rumours phenomenon had never occurred, because if it wasn't for Rumours...

...there would be no Tusk (as a reaction to Rumours)

...with all of the infighting and drama, the band would have split up if there wasn't a major payday involved.

...all the members would have remained in relative obscurity and solo record deals would have been unlikely.

...FM would have faded into obscurity like many of their 70's contemporaries like America, Kansas, Three Dog Night, Foghat, Firefall, etc.

Yes, whether we like it or not Rumours is FM's raison d'etre today. It established a level of critical superstardom that has allowed them to stay immensely popular despite the dearth of new material. Yes, I am bored by the repetition... but I am also infinitely grateful that they are still around doing what they do so well. But you certainly cannot fault their work ethic- between solo and band projects the FM fan always has something to look forward to.