Katie Holmes embracing Scientology

[catinthedark]

Originally Posted by skcin

You're right, Lux. I agree that these meds are way overused, and some people act like it's the norm for everyone to be on them. The thing that bothers me is that Scientologists don't believe in ANY psychotropic drug use. At all. Ever.

To tell someone who may really need these meds to function (people who are bipolar, clinically depressed, schizophrenic, etc.) that they DON'T need them & should stop taking them is a scary thing.

I completely agree with you, Paula, and also with Lux's view that you replied to. I think that when it comes to major mental illness, like bipolar disease (is it disease?), schizophrenia, etc. medication is indicated. But those patients are also under strict psychiatric observation. For the average kid who's a little bit hyper, or more difficult to keep focused in school, I say first try getting the kid more exercise, and try other ways to stimulate his/her interest before you just drug 'em up. I may get flamed for this, but I have already decided that my kid (if ever I have one in the future) will never, ever be put on ritilin or any of that ilk. Not a chance in hell. I really believe that children's brains and bodies are growing and changing too much until they reach 18-21, and to alter with that development is just too much of a risk. This is just me, as I said; don't ask me for medical proof.

[SomeKindaMother]

I do agree that *many* drugs are overprescribed. Especially for a child who is simply 'active'. That is actually a quite maddening subject for me. Drugging your child for 'convenience'. But some medications are literally able to turn lives around for some people. I can't believe how unbelieveably irresponsible these 'celebrities' are being. I don't have a problem with critisizing the overuse...and clarifying that specific testing be done to determine a genuine need. But saying that *nobody* should *ever* use them is almost criminal.

Kelly

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by SomeKindaMother

I do agree that *many* drugs are overprescribed. Especially for a child who is simply 'active'. That is actually a quite maddening subject for me. Drugging your child for 'convenience'. But some medications are literally able to turn lives around for some people. I can't believe how unbelieveably irresponsible these 'celebrities' are being. I don't have a problem with critisizing the overuse...and clarifying that specific testing be done to determine a genuine need. But saying that *nobody* should *ever* use them is almost criminal.

Kelly

Where I work, I deal with our local homeless population, and the majority of them have real mental issues. In CA, when Ronald Reagan was governor, he turned out onto the streets many of these mental patients and they comprise the overwhelming majority of our homeless folks. They DO need medicine, otherwise they would do physical harm to themselves or others. They live a hardscrabble life, and dont even think beyond their next meal or where they will sleep tonight. Most of them couldnt function at ALL without their medicine.

It's staggering how many particularly in the US use them, it's just a culture of prescribing drugs for any occasion.

and there we have Lux, GENERALIZING! and you know how much it pisses her off when someone else does it (or she thinks they are doing it!) Tsk, Tsk.

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

Where I work, I deal with our local homeless population, and the majority of them have real mental issues. In CA, when Ronald Reagan was governor, he turned out onto the streets many of these mental patients and they comprise the overwhelming majority of our homeless folks. They DO need medicine, otherwise they would do physical harm to themselves or others. They live a hardscrabble life, and dont even think beyond their next meal or where they will sleep tonight. Most of them couldnt function at ALL without their medicine.


and there we have Lux, GENERALIZING! and you know how much it pisses her off when someone else does it (or she thinks they are doing it!) Tsk, Tsk.

One of my childhood friends is schizophrenic and without her meds she is crazy with voices in her head and hallucinations. It is really sad. Someone else mentioned bipolar people, I used to work with a woman who jumped out of a moving car during an episode of mania. It was moving fast too, she hadn't slept for days and started thinking people were after her. Without meds she can't avoid those episodes. I agree with you, Kelly, that it is just about criminal to say all of these meds should always be avoided. I'd like to lock Tom up in a room with a shizophrenic not on meds.

[Serrart]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

and there we have Lux, GENERALIZING! and you know how much it pisses her off when someone else does it (or she thinks they are doing it!) Tsk, Tsk.

Actually I agree with her on this. I guess outside US, your health care system is perceived only in its exaggerations.

Romy

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by Serrart

Actually I agree with her on this. I guess outside US, your health care system is perceived only in its exaggerations.

Romy

my point was to highlight the fact that Lux is generalizing even tho she takes exception when she thinks others are doing it

our health care system does need help but not everyone here relies on drugs, contrary to how it may or may not appear to outsiders...if you want to know who is REALLY behind the push to rely on drugs, blame the pharmaceutical manufacturers, who have the Dr's in their back pockets...

[Serrart]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

my point was to highlight the fact that Lux is generalizing even tho she takes exception when she thinks others are doing it

our health care system does need help but not everyone here relies on drugs, contrary to how it may or may not appear to outsiders...if you want to know who is REALLY behind the push to rely on drugs, blame the pharmaceutical manufacturers, who have the Dr's in their back pockets...

Obviously I'm aware that not everyone in US relies on drugs (even if after Presidential elections I had some doubts about most American population... ahem) the fact is how can you accept there's such a tight link between doctors and pharmauceticals manuacturers when your health is at risk in this way? It's just that I'm really curious about this subject.

Romy

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by Serrart

Obviously I'm aware that not everyone in US relies on drugs (even if after Presidential elections I had some doubts about most American population... ahem) the fact is how can you accept there's such a tight link between doctors and pharmauceticals manuacturers when your health is at risk in this way? It's just that I'm really curious about this subject.

Romy

big business = big money = they get their way in America.

What do we do to fight it? Doctors get incentives to prescribe certain drugs by those drug companies. I guess lobby for a law to make that illegal? Not going to happen under the Rs in this administration.

[Stephanie]

Originally Posted by Serrart

Obviously I'm aware that not everyone in US relies on drugs (even if after Presidential elections I had some doubts about most American population... ahem) the fact is how can you accept there's such a tight link between doctors and pharmauceticals manuacturers when your health is at risk in this way? It's just that I'm really curious about this subject.

Romy

I can only speak for myself, but mainly I get samples of drugs from the pharm. reps, which i pass on free of charge to my low income or poorly insured patients. There are medicines that are equivalent, for example one of the drugs timolol goes by several names, and if I have a low income patient I do not care what brand name is on it, I will get it for them so they can stay on meds. I am not swayed by free lunches, freebies, etc.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by Serrart

Obviously I'm aware that not everyone in US relies on drugs (even if after Presidential elections I had some doubts about most American population... ahem) the fact is how can you accept there's such a tight link between doctors and pharmauceticals manuacturers when your health is at risk in this way? It's just that I'm really curious about this subject.

Romy

pharmaceutical companies spend big bucks developing their drugs, and need to get their stuff sold to recoup the money they put out in developing and testing, and so, they send in-house representatives out to doctors, and convince them that so and so drug is the latest cure all for such and such condition. Doctors are busy people and no matter how much they might try to keep up on the latest developments, its just not possible to stay on top of current drug offerings when you are working long hours seeing patients. Not to mention trying to stay abreast of latest sugical techniques or equipment. In the end, people trust their doctors (after all, theyve gone to school and all!) and there you have it....a system (in large part) controlled by profit, not humanitarianism....

having said that, not ALL companies engage in such blatant profit driven motives in drug sales, but the larger ones do...what's more, drugs are sold across our borders at a lesser price than we have to pay, and yet its against the law to buy them from Canada or Mexico at a reduced price....it sucks...
EDIT: I see Stephanie has just confirmed part of what I said re: in-house reps, as well as the fact that not everybody buys into the profitdriven mechanism. Hats off to YOU Stephanie....

btw: the results of the last *election* had nothing to do with a drugged populace and everything to to with a rigged flotilla of machines.

[Serrart]

Originally Posted by Stephanie

I can only speak for myself, but mainly I get samples of drugs from the pharm. reps, which i pass on free of charge to my low income or poorly insured patients. There are medicines that are equivalent, for example one of the drugs timolol goes by several names, and if I have a low income patient I do not care what brand name is on it, I will get it for them so they can stay on meds. I am not swayed by free lunches, freebies, etc.

That's a great thing Stephanie. Actually there's just been here a huge campaign to promote the use of those medicines that are equivalent. In that way, the government, that finances our health care system hoped to cut the expenses but it also helped us a bit to save some money.

Romy

[Serrart]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

big business = big money = they get their way in America.

What do we do to fight it? Doctors get incentives to prescribe certain drugs by those drug companies. I guess lobby for a law to make that illegal? Not going to happen under the Rs in this administration.

Originally Posted by irishgrl

pharmaceutical companies spend big bucks developing their drugs, and need to get their stuff sold to recoup the money they put out in developing and testing, and so, they send in-house representatives out to doctors, and convince them that so and so drug is the latest cure all for such and such condition. Doctors are busy people and no matter how much they might try to keep up on the latest developments, its just not possible to stay on top of current drug offerings when you are working long hours seeing patients. Not to mention trying to stay abreast of latest sugical techniques or equipment. In the end, people trust their doctors (after all, theyve gone to school and all!) and there you have it....a system (in large part) controlled by profit, not humanitarianism....

having said that, not ALL companies engage in such blatant profit driven motives in drug sales, but the larger ones do...what's more, drugs are sold across our borders at a lesser price than we have to pay, and yet its against the law to buy them from Canada or Mexico at a reduced price....it sucks...

Thank you both for the explanations, they helped me to understand more.

Originally Posted by irishgrl

btw: the results of the last *election* had nothing to do with a drugged populace and everything to to with a rigged flotilla of machines.

Well... yes, that was my second hypothesis.

Romy

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by Stephanie

I can only speak for myself, but mainly I get samples of drugs from the pharm. reps, which i pass on free of charge to my low income or poorly insured patients. There are medicines that are equivalent, for example one of the drugs timolol goes by several names, and if I have a low income patient I do not care what brand name is on it, I will get it for them so they can stay on meds. I am not swayed by free lunches, freebies, etc.

You rock. My doctors have been responsible in this way too.