'75 Fleetwood Mac - Rate the Non-Hits

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

But they were based out of LA since what-'72?

I believe it was either late 73, or early 74. Unless I'm mistaken, wasn't MTM recorded in England, with the Rolling Stone's mobile unit(did I dream that?).

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by McTrouble

Oh - do we over here still have a right to take part then?

Silly goose!

Originally Posted by Silver Springs

It doesn't matter where they were based. Their roots were British. You can't escape your roots, so of course they were still heavily influenced by them. They're "managed" by an Englishman, had an English front lady and writer until '97 and have an English base player. They were always by a majority a UK band. Even now, they're half a UK band. You can't just discount it completely and say they're not a UK band, because that's not strictly true.

Well, I said "technically" -- maybe I should have said "technically a UK band"... I still think a home base matters. What if a band is all American but is only successful overseas and doesn't even have released material in their home country?

It's not quite as cut and dried in this scenario. I would have described FM at the time as being a "former British blues band, now based out of the US". In fact, I would have thought their home turf would have sort of disowned them during their California transition and especially during the early release of FM the white album? Not discounting their roots at all though - maybe we would be safer to call them a British/American band...

[McTrouble]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

Silly goose!



Well, I said "technically" -- maybe I should have said "technically a UK band"... I still think a home base matters. What if a band is all American but is only successful overseas and doesn't even have released material in their home country?

It's not quite as cut and dried in this scenario. I would have described FM at the time as being a "former British blues band, now based out of the US". In fact, I would have thought their home turf would have sort of disowned them during their California transition and especially during the early release of FM the white album? Not discounting their roots at all though - maybe we would be safer to call them a British/American band...

at the "silly goose"!!!

I wholeheartedly agree with that description - actually, this is how they have always been referred to here in England since the Fab 5 lineup!

[MikeInNV]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

I think a hit is anything that was released as a single and charted high. You can't call something a hit that only charted below the Top 20, unless we're just going by fan favorites and we're all so biased here... lol

Originally Posted by MacShadowsBall

Save Me from Behind the Mask were their only Post-Rumours hit, while no other post Dance songs fit the criteria as a album hit.

I think we've found a solution that works, so I'm not posting this to muddy the waters, BUT....

it's funny how hard it is to define a hit. While "Landslide" from The Dance only charted at #51, you really have to take into account how much radio had changed in the 10 years preceding. There is no way that song wasn't a hit. It was played to death on several station in my area, and fifteen years later, I still hear it on the radio a couple times a month. On the other hand, I almost never hear "Hold Me" anymore, and I don't think I've heard "Big Love" since it dropped off the charts in 1987.

Once again, I'm not suggesting we change anything....I just think it's funny how you can never be sure what will be an enduring "hit."

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by MikeInNV

I think we've found a solution that works, so I'm not posting this to muddy the waters, BUT....

it's funny how hard it is to define a hit. While "Landslide" from The Dance only charted at #51, you really have to take into account how much radio had changed in the 10 years preceding. There is no way that song wasn't a hit. It was played to death on several station in my area, and fifteen years later, I still hear it on the radio a couple times a month. On the other hand, I almost never hear "Hold Me" anymore, and I don't think I've heard "Big Love" since it dropped off the charts in 1987.

Once again, I'm not suggesting we change anything....I just think it's funny how you can never be sure what will be an enduring "hit."

You make a very good point. I think there are definite "regional" hits that may be very popular with that area's audience but not enough to make a difference on the charts. Buckingham Nicks could have probably been called a "hit" in the Birmingham, AL area but was a bomb nationally. I also heard The Dance version of "Landslide" played a lot on my local stations.

[MikeInNV]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

You make a very good point. I think there are definite "regional" hits that may be very popular with that area's audience but not enough to make a difference on the charts. Buckingham Nicks could have probably been called a "hit" in the Birmingham, AL area but was a bomb nationally. I also heard The Dance version of "Landslide" played a lot on my local stations.

I hear you, but I think "Landslide" was pretty big almost everywhere. Years ago, Billboard's Top 40 was simply the 40 most popular songs in America, but eventually "Top 40" became its own genre, and those stations didn't play songs by a band as old as Fleetwood Mac. The "Landslide" video was on VH-1 all the time. Does anyone have any info on how it did on the AC charts?

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by MikeInNV

I hear you, but I think "Landslide" was pretty big almost everywhere. Years ago, Billboard's Top 40 was simply the 40 most popular songs in America, but eventually "Top 40" became its own genre, and those stations didn't play songs by a band as old as Fleetwood Mac. The "Landslide" video was on VH-1 all the time. Does anyone have any info on how it did on the AC charts?

Oh, I was just going by your comment about #51 position. I didn't know how well it did overall.

Looked it up -- "Landslide" charted at #10 on the AC chart in 1998.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by MacShadowsBall

Sounds perfect to me. We can remove the top 20 singles and nothing more.

'75 Fleetwood Mac - Over My Head, Rhiannon, Say You Love Me

Rumours - Go Your Own Way, Don't Stop, Dreams, You Make Loving Fun

Tusk - Tusk, Sara, Think About Me

Mirage - Hold Me, Gypsy

Tango in the Night - Big Love, Seven Wonders, Little Lies, Everywhere

Save Me from Behind the Mask were their only Post-Rumours hit, while no other post Dance songs fit the criteria as a album hit.

I propose we make only 3 exceptions: Landslide, Gold Dust woman, and the chain. Landslide is arguable the most reconizable and well know song in this bands history. forget if the band didn't make it a single, the world has made it a single The same goes for the other 2. I hear GDW on the radio as much if not more then her singles.

Now I realize you can say back, Oh where do you draw the line. Second Hand News and World turning are quite well known, get some decent play still. what about So Afraid being such the concert staple. And you'd be right that could make things less black and white,but those 3 are really ina league of their own. lets keep your clear cut rules of top 20 singles only excluded plus those 3.

I dont want to be difficult but Id just have to question the validity of this game with Landslide, GDW and The Chain being considered non hits.

[Fireflies]

Originally Posted by Silver Springs

It doesn't matter where they were based. Their roots were British. You can't escape your roots, so of course they were still heavily influenced by them. They're "managed" by an Englishman, had an English front lady and writer until '97 and have an English base player. They were always by a majority a UK band. Even now, they're half a UK band. You can't just discount it completely and say they're not a UK band, because that's not strictly true.

let me restate that Dee used the term "era". they were certainly more successful/known in the US from 1981-1985. she wasn't discounting their "heritage", just that they were certainly an "american" band during that period of time.

even your subconscious agrees: "Their roots were British."

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by Fireflies

let me restate that Dee used the term "era". they were certainly more successful/known in the US from 1981-1985. she wasn't discounting their "heritage", just that they were certainly an "american" band during that period of time.

Thanks, Fireflies.

[elle]

FM are British/American band. they have been since BN joined (i guess before that they were British band with Bob Welch).

the fact that they were / are based out of the US for a number of years now doesn't make them less British. a number of solo musicians or bands were based out of the US throughout the years but were still considered British musicians... Bowie was based in the UK, Germany, US... what about Lennon? the Stones?

[elle]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

I propose we make only 3 exceptions: Landslide, Gold Dust woman, and the chain. Landslide is arguable the most reconizable and well know song in this bands history. forget if the band didn't make it a single, the world has made it a single The same goes for the other 2. I hear GDW on the radio as much if not more then her singles.

Now I realize you can say back, Oh where do you draw the line. Second Hand News and World turning are quite well known, get some decent play still. what about So Afraid being such the concert staple. And you'd be right that could make things less black and white,but those 3 are really ina league of their own. lets keep your clear cut rules of top 20 singles only excluded plus those 3.

I dont want to be difficult but Id just have to question the validity of this game with Landslide, GDW and The Chain being considered non hits.

i'm completely with you. except i might draw the line / vote a bit differently on the songs you mentioned (bolded) above (hey maybe we need a poll on whether these songs should be included as non-hits?! ).

based on the hit status and extensive radio and tv play in the last 20 or so years, plus the amount of money they made, i completely agree with you that Landslide and The Chain are hits and should not be included in the non-hits game.

GDW seems to have similar status to SHN - both have reached somewhat of a cult and hit status in the last 20 or so years. SHN is a huge staple on some of the classic rock stations. so i would say if you are excluding GDW as a hit, then you need to exclude SHN as well.

I have never heard World Turning or So Afraid on the radio, or used in the tv commercials, or as a background music on tv programs. these 2 songs are staples of Mac live shows (and ISA of LB live shows), but outside of the concert arena, these are not huge songs. so World Turning and So Afraid can safely count as non-hits.

going down the line, i would say that Peacekeeper and Say You Will were minor hits, and definitely played on the radio. so those 2 should also not be in the running for a favorite non-hit, imo.

just my 0.02.

[CADreaming]

It doesn't make sense to ignore the charts and call all fan dictated hits legitimate "hits". There has to be some standard to go by and single release/chart status is the most logical.

I would be curious to know how many singles were released in the UK vs. US. And Bob Welch is from California and was the first to infuse CA pop into FM's blues sound, so the Americanization actually began then.

[elle]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

And Bob Welch is from California and was the first to infuse CA pop into FM's blues sound, so the Americanization actually began then.

yup, that's what i just said.

[elle]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

It doesn't make sense to ignore the charts and call all fan dictated hits legitimate "hits". There has to be some standard to go by and single release/chart status is the most logical.

exactly!! and that was the problem with what MSB was first proposing - to call "hits" all songs that were voted as favorites by fans on The Ledge in his previous polls.

Monday Morning was never a hit, whether or not it was voted a fan favorite. but i can argue that SHN was / is a hit - it is definitely a staple of several classic rock stations which in general (and unfortunately) play only classic rock hits.