Fleetwood Mac Life Magazine Special Edition

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by PenguinHead

It was implied it would take a lot of dedication to become a professional player and that Stevie never had that ambition. Her skill level is enough for her to form the rudimentary basis of her songs.

I disagree, it takes more than dedication and ambition to be good. Her skill level on the piano pushing a chord. It's not that difficult. I think she's tried both guitar and piano and knows she's just not cut out for it. (This was way back in the early to mid 70's.)

Her singing at the piano in the recent RS posts sound horrible to me as well.
I love her singing with an ensemble.

I look at someone like Joni Mitchell who wasn't trained in notes, chords or tunings.. She just picks up a guitar and naturally knows what she wants out of it. Not a lifetime of dedication or practice. Much like Lindsey, she's a natural. Stevie isn't.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by nicole21290

Well, fans aren't the only ones who thought it wasn't exactly fantastic...

Just read the Life Magazine article on Fleetwood Mac.I was there.(Although you wouldn't know it from reading life.)Tabloid crap!Really Ken??

— Richard Dashut (@RichardDashut) May 14, 2015

well we knew by his own accounts that Richard feels his role as a producer has been marginalized by Lindsey, and now, perhaps also by Ken (I don't know what Ken is quoted as saying in the article). By writing his book, Ken has gotten his version of his role in producing FM music on record. Other than his obvious credits on the albums and the Grammy on his shelf at home, the specifics of Richard's contributions to the process remain ill-defined. This seems to bother him a lot. He clearly feels dissed by LB whom he feels has at best minimized and at worst completely dismissed his contributions. And this may have some truth to it. Ken also hasn't really said a whole lot to illuminate just what Richard's role was. Richard could rectify this by telling his own story.

He also contributed to his own situation by not going on to establish his credentials outside of FM and turning down chances to work with other bands or other producers (Ken went on to produce other major acts, and, both Ken and Jimmy Iovine asked Richard to work with them). It seems he turned much of that work down out of a sense of loyalty to LB, a sense of loyalty that perhaps was not reciprocated.... hence his feeling of being somewhat discarded or pushed aside. Again, that may be true, and his loyalty may have been misguided, but nevertheless nothing purely "happens" to us, we usually in some way contribute. Maybe he naively thought his relationship with LB would remain the same forever and ever.... maybe, because of his admitted self-esteem issues, he didn't have the self-confidence to take on other jobs.

He should either just write the damn book telling his version of events, without bitterness, just record his memories....or let it go. Even in his current more mellow approach to life I don't see LB doling out much credit to others regarding production and arrangement of FM songs. His own need for recognition in doing that overshadows that. Richard seems like he's somehow just waiting for Lindsey to "speak the truth" about Richard's role, and I just don't see that happening. He either needs to get it out of his system and document it somehow, which is kinda what the blog seemed to be to me, or move on.

[elle]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

The text was decent--until it wasn't. Ken Caillat's assessment of Tusk as a musical failure is taken as an unchallenged truth. Likewise, his bashing of Mick, Stevie, and Christine as crazy coke-heads is pretty rude. Carol Ann Harris's Storms is quoted frequently as a reliable, unbiased source. And there are plenty of snide remarks about the band's excesses, courtesy of J.I. Baker, who doesn't have a clear point of view about his subject, alternating between awe and derision.

The text won't do any damage among us hardcore fans. But it will further perpetuate the myths and stereotypes about these musicians in the eyes of the general public. Subpar journalism.

Originally Posted by Fannymac

And I agree.....great pictures, lousy copy. It's amazingly biased against the band, particularly from a "life-long fan." And it's not just TUSK that the author slams.....he pretty much says everything after RUMOURS sucked, calling MIRAGE the work of a "tired" Fleetwood Mac "cover band."
I also thought the fact that the majority of quotes were taken from Ken Caillat's and Carol Ann Harris' (VERY biased) books smacked of yellow journalism. In fact, the only real even handed quotes in the entire article seemed to come from Keith Olson.
All in all, nice batch of photos, but the copy shows just how low Life has sunk!

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

Thank you for confirming my reaction. I was beginning to think no one else felt this way. Yeah, the way Mirage and Tango are pretty much written off and even Say You Will is dismissed as "underwhelming." Keith Olsen and Ray Lindsey are the only quoted people without a seeming agenda.

Originally Posted by sleepless child

I found it by accident in the Pittsburgh airport. I was very surprised to see the whole magazine was devoted to the band. I thought it was just going to be an article. a lot of photos we have already seen. a few we haven't. Most of the text is stuff we already know but there are a few quotes from Ken Calliet and Keith Olsen.

Originally Posted by PenguinHead

I just got mine today, at a Wallgreen store. Lots of great photos - some that are familiar, and others I've never seen before. The article was a fair assessment, if not a comprehensive compendium of the band's history.

"Consider 1988 to 2013 to be the vacant years for the band. Billy Burnette and Rick Vito, surely capable musicians, joined, and the forgettable Behind the Mask was released in 1990. The equally forgettable Time was released in 1995 with (sorry forgettable) new members Bekka Bramlett on vocals and Dave Mason on guitar."

Originally Posted by nicole21290

Well, fans aren't the only ones who thought it wasn't exactly fantastic...

Just read the Life Magazine article on Fleetwood Mac.I was there.(Although you wouldn't know it from reading life.)Tabloid crap!Really Ken??

— Richard Dashut (@RichardDashut) May 14, 2015

guess Richard Dashut didn't like what Ken Caillat had to say, and agreed with all of you who read the text and thought it was biased against the band.


my disclosure - i haven't looked for the magazine (no interest in collectibles such as physical pics, text, etc about the band), so i can't judge what the text actually said.

[elle]

a series of tweets from RD's ex-assistant Stacy -


@Stacy_B · 3 hours ago
Don't believe everything you read.
With that being said, the LIFE magazine edition on FM is complete BS.

@Stacy_B · 2 hours ago
Literally bullsh*t. All of it, bunch of lies. Trust me, I know what the heck happened in the 70's-90's w/ FM & Richard. That story is a lie.

@Stacy_B · 2 hours ago
@kenboggle well, Ken did a Ken again & threw everyone under the bus but made himself look like the important guy who did all the work. LIES.

@Stacy_B · 2 hours ago
@sherrisurfs76 its cool to see them on the cover & all but totally not cool to have your best friend & collaborator talked down on publicly.

@Stacy_B · 2 hours ago
Okay, rant over.
I just wanted to clear the air, but if you'd been following the blog, you already know the truth

[SpyNote]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

He should either just write the damn book telling his version of events, without bitterness, just record his memories....or let it go. Even in his current more mellow approach to life I don't see LB doling out much credit to others regarding production and arrangement of FM songs. His own need for recognition in doing that overshadows that. Richard seems like he's somehow just waiting for Lindsey to "speak the truth" about Richard's role, and I just don't see that happening. He either needs to get it out of his system and document it somehow, which is kinda what the blog seemed to be to me, or move on.

Seriously. He's going about all this the wrong way. Write the damn book or move on!

[SpyNote]

Originally Posted by elle

a series of tweets from RD's ex-assistant Stacy -


@Stacy_B · 3 hours ago
Don't believe everything you read.
With that being said, the LIFE magazine edition on FM is complete BS.

@Stacy_B · 2 hours ago
Literally bullsh*t. All of it, bunch of lies. Trust me, I know what the heck happened in the 70's-90's w/ FM & Richard. That story is a lie.

@Stacy_B · 2 hours ago
@kenboggle well, Ken did a Ken again & threw everyone under the bus but made himself look like the important guy who did all the work. LIES.

@Stacy_B · 2 hours ago
@sherrisurfs76 its cool to see them on the cover & all but totally not cool to have your best friend & collaborator talked down on publicly.

@Stacy_B · 2 hours ago
Okay, rant over.
I just wanted to clear the air, but if you'd been following the blog, you already know the truth

She seems a little bitter. Just an observation.

[Frankenstein]

Originally Posted by elle

a series of tweets from RD's ex-assistant Stacy -

Ex-assistant??

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

I disagree, it takes more than dedication and ambition to be good. Her skill level on the piano pushing a chord. It's not that difficult. I think she's tried both guitar and piano and knows she's just not cut out for it. (This was way back in the early to mid 70's.)

Her singing at the piano in the recent RS posts sound horrible to me as well.
I love her singing with an ensemble.

I look at someone like Joni Mitchell who wasn't trained in notes, chords or tunings.. She just picks up a guitar and naturally knows what she wants out of it. Not a lifetime of dedication or practice. Much like Lindsey, she's a natural. Stevie isn't.

You're right. Dedication and ambition has its limits when you don't have the intrinsic natural talent. It's fine that Stevie uses her limited instrumental skills to construct her songs, but when she goes public with them, she doesn't do herself any favors. But I admire her attempts. Time makes her bolder.

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

well we knew by his own accounts that Richard feels his role as a producer has been marginalized by Lindsey, and now, perhaps also by Ken ... Other than his obvious credits on the albums and the Grammy on his shelf at home, the specifics of Richard's contributions to the process remain ill-defined. This seems to bother him a lot. He clearly feels dissed...

He should either just write the damn book telling his version of events, without bitterness, just record his memories....or let it go. Even in his current more mellow approach to life I don't see LB doling out much credit to others regarding production and arrangement of FM songs. His own need for recognition in doing that overshadows that. Richard seems like he's somehow just waiting for Lindsey to "speak the truth" about Richard's role, and I just don't see that happening. He either needs to get it out of his system and document it somehow, which is kinda what the blog seemed to be to me, or move on.

What is interesting here is how similar Richard's feelings, as you aptly explain them, resemble Bob Welch's. You change Lindsey to Fleetwood and the McVies, and Rumours to 1971-74 and you've got pretty much the same thing going on.

[elle]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

well we knew by his own accounts that Richard feels his role as a producer has been marginalized by Lindsey, and now, perhaps also by Ken (I don't know what Ken is quoted as saying in the article).

i never got that vibe from Richard or his blog, where did you see this?

there were tweets from Stacy after one of LB's interviews (Andy Greenwald podcast i believe) complaining that Lindsey didn't talk about Richard in that interview. that is all. in his blog or tweets Richard never said anything like that, just the opposite.

unlike Lindsey, Richard actually has producer credits on Rumours.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by elle

i never got that vibe from Richard or his blog, where did you see this?

there were tweets from Stacy after one of LB's interviews (Andy Greenwald podcast i believe) complaining that Lindsey didn't talk about Richard in that interview. that is all. in his blog or tweets Richard never said anything like that, just the opposite.

unlike Lindsey, Richard actually has producer credits on Rumours.

on his blog mostly.....which I can't go back to and quote to you

one in particular i recall was after the podcast aired, with its discussion of making Tusk, a comment to the effect of yes I was there too remember i was the guy on the other end of the talk-back mic... I just remember it because the line about the talk-back mic was so pointed. eta: the recent twitter exchange with Ken, where Ken essentially responds that he wasn't deliberately leaving out Richard. something like "i tell the reporters when I say "I" I mean "Dashut and I"

[elle]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

on his blog mostly.....which I can't go back to and quote to you

one in particular i recall was after the podcast aired, with its discussion of making Tusk, a comment to the effect of yes I was there too remember i was the guy on the other end of the talk-back mic... I just remember it because the line about the talk-back mic was so pointed. eta: the recent twitter exchange with Ken, where Ken essentially responds that he wasn't deliberately leaving out Richard. something like "i tell the reporters when I say "I" I mean "Dashut and I"

it's interesting because again - both Ken and Richard actually HAVE producing credit on Tusk (same as Rumours). neither one of them has to prove that they were actually producing it, it's all right there in the liner notes etc. and they are getting producing money for these albums, whatever that is (didn't SN once said how that's large chunk?).

LB does not have producing credit (by name) on Rumours, or Tusk (where he does have special thanks). for LB, all we have is what he and others say he did on those albums, production-wise. RD and KC are listed by name as producers.

http://www.discogs.com/Fleetwood-Mac...elease/2089217

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by elle

it's interesting because again - both Ken and Richard actually HAVE producing credit on Tusk (same as Rumours). neither one of them has to prove that they were actually producing it, it's all right there in the liner notes etc. and they are getting producing money for these albums, whatever that is (didn't SN once said how that's large chunk?).

http://www.discogs.com/Fleetwood-Mac...elease/2089217

She said that Lindsey gets producing money, which is why he has so much of it -- and I have no doubt that he does -- at least from Tusk on -- whatever the liner notes say.

Michele

[elle]

Originally Posted by michelej1

She said that Lindsey gets producing money, which is why he has so much of it -- and I have no doubt that he does -- at least from Tusk on -- whatever the liner notes say.

Michele

interesting, i was wondering how that works - can someone who is not officially a producer be getting "producing money"? my assumption would be whoever is listed as a producer (on all docs, contracts, liner notes, etc) would be getting whatever producing money is, and that's it.

[Street_Dreamer]

Anyone else see this? I picked up a copy today. Just thumbing through it, seems like the same old same old rehashing of everything, specifically the Rumours album. Unsurprisingly, everything after Lindsey leaving is glossed over and given a few pithy (and disrespectful) comments.