#61
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I'd be interested in other folks takes on Greenie's The End Of The Game. |
#62
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It was considerably different on the European side. The British in particular, but also the Germans, Dutch and Scandinavians, had a harder time letting go of the blues centered FM. Many of them took the loss of Green as a loss of Fleetwood Mac, since they were raised on its blues-rock core from the get-go. Any way you look at it, the USA and Europe were different playing fields altogether. In Europe, PGFM ruled, wherein America, they largely went unnoticed -- especially when compared to other big name British acts of the day. As time went on of course, and more peeps in the States came to discover FM, it was inevitable some of the old buzz surrounding Green and the early "three guitar front" would come to more people's attention. That's why so many on this side went backwards to discover the Mac's blues core. Sooo ...when Kiln House came out I knew that Green was gone but I thought that Danny had such a great tone out of his Goldtop that he could shine on his own. When I hear the Album I was unprepared for what it played like. I had heard Mission Bell on the radio, Hi Ho Silver and Buddy Holly was, well, Buddy Holley. Nowhere on the previos FM recordings did old school (I am dating myself here) rock and roll appear. Well stated. Mirrors my own feelings at the time, 'cept I had a taste of what might be coming from the live setting(s) I witnessed. Still wasn't sure just how retro it would go. This is the rock this one gets better with age. Spencer has impeccable timing Station Man we hear in short bursts Dannys guitar tone, nice tune, not very edgy though Blood On The Foor Spencer at his satirical best Hi Ho Silver nice rocker good cover Jewel Eyed Judy Pop here we go (this is for you snoot) Buddys Song Jeremy got this down good Earl Gray simmered in the pot too long, but fortells of Dragonfly to come( I also think Dragonfly is Danny's erie best One Together space filler, nice song Tell Me All The Things That You Do What I was expecting when I Bought the Album to begin with Mission Bell Nice Cover, strange ending track I'm impressed with your takes, much better than some of your "concessionary" MTM ones imo. thirtyeight? years later the album stands up as a contiguous whole, is as an album higher on the list than many FM releases with better press. On the button again (but please, don't bring up all those years now ouch). If only more of those post-75ers would give it a spin! They have no idea what a pleasant surprise lies in store. PS. Some nice guitarmeisters notched under your "live" belt there. Even Alvin Lee in the mix! EDIT PS. Jewel Eyed Judy rulez! It's where Mac meet the Beatles V. Never forget that. Last edited by snoot; 12-17-2008 at 08:46 PM.. |
#63
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Well, and this is borderline minutia, there was the b-side to Man Of The World, called Somebody’s Gonna Get Their Head Kicked In Tonight. Also, there was the self-titled Jeremy Spencer solo album, which is essentially a Fleetwood Mac album (the backing band is Mick, John, and Danny, with Peter making a cameo). So it was there, but it's definitely obscure reference stuff.
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On and on it will always be, the rhythm, rhyme, and harmony. THE Stephen Hopkins |
#64
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man of the world
i must confess that i did not hear man of the world or the b side until years later
Spencers solo album however i did |
#65
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to us who weren't around . There's 3 recordings of Peter depping on the spring tour: February 19, 1971 SWING AUDITORIUM, SAN BERNADINO, CA February 26, 1971 FILLMORE EAST, NEW YORK March 27, 1971 ROCK PILE, LONG ISLAND, NEW YORK Someone is playing rhythm guitar on the Swing tape, and it has to be Peter, though you can't really tell. He plays very much a supporting role. The Fillmore tape has a few Kiln House numbers and 2 20+ minutes jams, where both Peter and Danny cuts loose. Sound quality sucks horribly, though! The rock pile is basically 2 extended instrumental jams, a bit like "Madge". |
#66
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Someone is playing rhythm guitar on the Swing tape, and it has to be Peter, though you can't really tell. He plays very much a supporting role. That's Peter, only an unusually subdued version of the PG we all know. The Fillmore tape has a few Kiln House numbers and 2 20+ minutes jams, where both Peter and Danny cuts loose. Sound quality sucks horribly, though! The rock pile is basically 2 extended instrumental jams, a bit like "Madge". That's most likely Peter again, only with the robes cast. Never got that far east though. I can only speak for two shows, and they were considerably different. The Swing was a small concert hall in ol' San Berdoo (San Bernardino) at the old Orange Show Fairgrounds. Been to it many times. It was a hitching post and stage stop for acts rolling up and down California, mostly between SF and LA (Anaheim, Long Beach, San Diego). Many stopped in there only to test out their stuff, make adjustments or set changes, etc. But most acts bypassed the auditorium altogether since it was kind of frayed and beat up, had benches for seating, and the acoustics weren't the greatest. But one thing it always had going for it was that it was always packed to the gills, and the very enthusiastic "inland empire" crowds always let the performers know where they stood! Back to Mac. When Spencer cut out, Peter got on a plane from England to help out, bringing his old pal Nigel Watson. The band was in a state of panic, having just cancelled their gig at the Whiskey in L.A. Before the week was out, they all converged at the Swing. It was a multiple billing IIRC, but what really stood out was the total calamity of the show. QMS preceded Mac on stage. They were almost as big a wreck as FM at that time, with two of their guitarists "battling" for turf right there on the stage. What a hoot! At one point Valente even challenged the crowd, not sure if he flipped everyone off but there was all kinds of hissing and booing and plenty of fingers aimed his way. Now remember things were a lot different back then, and that kind of concert scene was not unheard of in the supercharged days of psychedelia. Quicksilver was a jam band so the peeps wanted to hear more of Johnny's (Cipollina) guitar, but ****in' Dino the dinosaur wouldn't have it (too jealous). The whole thing was pretty awful. A bit later the Mac were up. Peter tried to give Danny support but could do little more than hang in the shadows since a lot of what they were doing was still unfamiliar to him (Kiln House numbers). He only stepped up and cut loose on the extended stuff. Danny tried to compensate but pushing things as far as he could. A lot of pedal work, some really nice grooves in there too, but it was quite an effort. It was also intermittent and definitely less than stellar, as the band looked shellshocked more than anything else, no doubt due to Jeremy's sudden exit. John was the only one who appeared "normal," Mick looked like he was on uppers - for all I know he hadn't slept for days. Christie I can barely recall, being off to one side, but her singing didn't seem quite up to par. Watson may have been playing bongos, but I can't even remember it. Overall, only a so-so performance but understandable considering what had just occurred. The other event I can speak for in that tour Peter was much more in the mix, but once again things were stilted. There seemed like there was very little magic between him and Danny at that point, who at times looked bored (unenthused would be an understatement; the other members weren't far behind). Sad but there appeared to be a touch of tension between them, with no smiles or attempts to ramp things up to the max. The jamming was now much more to the forefront, with Peter co-anchoring the point. It was erratic at best, alternating between cool flashes of the old Mac with familiar riffs, and a bunch of abstract meandering and offbeat phrasing. Oh Well was still being done instrumentally IIRC, Black Magic Woman was in the mix at some point too. Both were extended jams but not like legend has them, going on for an hour or more. May still have occurred at a later point though, who knows. I don't think Danny or the other band members were happy with the turn of events though, not losing Pete for good the previous year, then Jeremy's erratic plug-pull on the west coast, then Pete coming back with "terms" which only got more stringent as time went on. They were doing less and less KH material (which they were supposed to be promoting for sales!) that PG never really got into, and since he refused to sing his old stuff, it left them kind of straight-jacketed. Knowing Peter wasn't going to be there in their future, I think Danny started resenting him for wanting to do things "his way" at that point (and thus perhaps the flying bottle incident). Much of the jamming was improv and looseknit, at times poorly structured with riffs not always familiar to the audience. Then they'd cut into something old and cook a bit, only to soon morph elsewhere. Green was off on his own groove at that point, and my feeling was that the band couldn't wait for that tour to end so they could get off that bus once and for all. Last edited by snoot; 12-18-2008 at 09:28 PM.. |
#67
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Ah and I overlooked your brooklyn lad from earlier, Pappalardi's boy, Leslie West! Mississippi Queen still sees radio time even out west. Quote:
I think what turned me off initially was the Buddy Hollyness of it and now I even get that. A little Holly, Elvis, Perkins, Lewis, Haley and Owens all rolled up into one! Call it a revisit (and nod) to rockabilly. |
#68
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With Rick Vito & Billy Burnette, they were very close to ressurrecting the Green/Spencer combo. I think that's what appealed to me about that '87-90 lineup; they pretty much could cover the entire Fleetwood Mac history, but, for some reason that escapes me they never really took advantage of that (they did on the "Green" side with Vito, but not the "Spencer" side with Burnette).
__________________
Among God's creations, two, the dog and the guitar, have taken all the sizes and all the shapes in order not to be separated from the man.---Andres Segovia |
#69
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With Rick Vito & Billy Burnette, they were very close to ressurrecting the Green/Spencer combo. I think that's what appealed to me about that '87-90 lineup; they pretty much could cover the entire Fleetwood Mac history, but, for some reason that escapes me they never really took advantage of that (they did on the "Green" side with Vito, but not the "Spencer" side with Burnette). Lost in the Mac's ongoing identity shuffle, trying to cover the Buckingham deficit, while attempting to find a footing and platform all their own. Both are first class guitarists, that goes without saying. I think the only reason they're dismissed as lightly as they are in the larger Mac equation is that they surfaced in the shadow of Lindsey, and all that fame and glory that came before. They weren't really prolific songwriters either, especially Vito, so that didn't help. But I think you're onto something with the Green/Spencer combo revisit, as rockabilly is always cool, especially when graced with a more modern, updated twist. |
#70
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Their careers should definitely NOT be judged by their time in Fleetwood Mac.
__________________
On and on it will always be, the rhythm, rhyme, and harmony. THE Stephen Hopkins |
#71
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Beyond Lindsey's long shadow, I don't think it helped coming aboard in the wake of Tango of all things. Wonder if they knew or fully appreciated what they were getting into, especially Rick? As for stepping up, I'm curious what your opinion is of Behind The Mask, and more importantly, their specific contributions. Sad to say, but by that point the Mac had largely lost me, so I may not be the best judge. Their careers should definitely NOT be judged by their time in Fleetwood Mac. True. Fortunately both are held in the highest regards in music circles, even if they were somewhat lost in the shuffle during their tenures with the band. Membership in FM is still a good citation to have on your "resume" though, even if it comes late (Dave Mason notwithstanding?). |
#72
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Rick Vito from Philadelphia (Phillies WS champs!), saw FM with Peter Green in late '68 in their one time stop for two nights at the Electric Factory. Vito was worthy of the throne when he was hired after LB's leave. (he is around Kirwan's age BTW) Billy Burnette's addition was a little weird to me at the time. Unless Mick wanted to bring back the Green/Spencer or Kirwan vibe, yet Burnette didn't take??? You don't need two guitarists to replace Buckingham. Who knows what was going on, at this point the band was in pop oblivion. |
#73
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__________________
On and on it will always be, the rhythm, rhyme, and harmony. THE Stephen Hopkins |
#74
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Unfortunately FM as a collective wasn't really looking to start fresh or anew, but instead continue with the same successful (aka "commercially safe") formula. Silly me, having hopes that this promising new tandem might create a marked shift in the direction of the past (appropriately modernized), by bringing the multi axe attack once again to the fore. After all, what did they stand to lose after Tango? But after giving Behind The Mask a run-through early on, I could see this wasn't the case, and never really fleshed it out further. Perhaps I didn't give it its full due, but that project - with all its hope - didn't exactly leap out at me (not fully its fault either, nothing FM was grabbing my attention by that point). Fact was, I was disappointed with what >> could have been <<. Who knows what was going on, at this point the band was in pop oblivion. Sad to say, that was (is) my general take too. Not solely from the BTM release mind you, but as a continuance of things going back as far as Tusk really. Spottier hit and miss productions, with an ever widening plunge toward pop goes the weasel. Tusk would have been a tighter production if it had been condensed to a single album imo, even with all those little gems found on it. Would have made for a more impactful and consistent follow-up to FM '75 and Rumours that way. As great a guitarist as Lindsey is, at times I think he could have broadened the FM sound more by bringing in a second gun for accents and additional counterpoint, especially as time went on. But if commercial sales are any gauge, that was far from needed -- plus he IS a magnificent axemeister as a solo hand, that's a given. Could it be a case of Stevie overload at that point? Or just SOS POP FM in general? Alas, I'm such a dinasour from the days of yore that I still long for that special instrumental offering(s) we used to get with nearly every FM project of the past. As noted earlier, not -ONE- since Buckingham took the helm AFAIK! Yikes. Quote:
Billy was an obvious choice because he knew the others pretty well. Maybe because he was also more malleable, you know, more of a no make waves team player? What we needed was a Forgetaboutit Stevie! Pipe down Christy! STFU Mick! in your face change of direction at that point. Not more of this "Will you have some crumpets with your tea, Stevie? Oh, and how 'bout you Mick? Christy, my love?" Pfffft. Ha ha ha yeah, and pink elephants will fly. TAKE BACK THE MAC! That's what we fossils from the past were shouting. [blush] Actually, Billy was going to be on the Tango tour even if Lindsey had stayed. Where did you hear that? Lindsey to spearhead a dual axe attack? Proof or FAIL. Last edited by snoot; 12-21-2008 at 12:05 AM.. |
#75
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__________________
On and on it will always be, the rhythm, rhyme, and harmony. THE Stephen Hopkins |
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