Going Their Own Way (Sunday Times, 24th May)

[WildHearted]

To be honest, I really think they should have waited to do this tour. I guess all they saw were dollar signs when Christine decided to return and figured they would milk it for all it was worth from the get-go.... but I think a smarter long-term plan would have been to use 2014 to record the album, tour 2015 to promote it [along with the return of Chris], and then decide where to go (if anywhere) from there. By doing the back to back tours it wore everyone out and now they're all sick of each other (or at least Stevie and Lindsey are, and Mick sick of them being sick of each other). I just feel like they would have had a better shot to actually get some new music out if they'd have gone that route instead.

I know Stevie was reluctant to record to begin with, but I think there was a better shot at getting her to do it in 2014 then there's going to be in 2016 or whatever they're trying to do.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by KenshiMaster16

Sure, there has always been this kind of diva/childish/holier-than-thou behavior from at least somebody in the band but given the circumstances; Christine's return, their ages, John's cancer, you'd think they'd have (excuse my language) grown the **** up and just get on with it before someone drops dead from natural or unnatural causes. Let's face it; nobody wants to see a fragile Mick, Lindsey or wheelchair bound Stevie barely keeping rhythm and holding notes anymore for 2 and a half hours. They need to keep trucking until the sun sets because let's face it, it's setting pretty fast at this rate and they're simply running out of time. They are not youngsters anymore who can spend a decade toying about with solo projects while treating each other like pieces of crap and bickering back and forth about the future of the band. They need to work out the finality of this band before it's too late. However, if they want to go out looking like idiots who can't get along for more than 2 months to finish a studio album and would rather 'play pretend' on stage for the rest of their lives, that's on them. They should at least have the dignity of going out like a class act instead of a bunch of emotionally fragile individuals.

Dude, this is way too much planning for Fleetwood Mac.

[elle]

Originally Posted by WildHearted

I know Stevie was reluctant to record to begin with, but I think there was a better shot at getting her to do it in 2014 then there's going to be in 2016 or whatever they're trying to do.

except they tried getting her to record in 2014. she said no.

it almost seems like they were trying to bluff her into recording in the first 6 months of 2014 by setting up the tour in the fall and saying "gotta do it now, cause we'll tour later and there will be no time". didn't work.

and remember, last year before they had UK dates set Christine was talking about maybe trying to finish and get that album out before the European leg of the tour.

so it looks like at several points they had either the option of finishing the album (basically Stevie to say yes and participate) or adding more tour dates. seems that given these 2 options Stevie chose the tour over the album every time... the option she's complaining about now.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by SpyNote

Before pointing fingers, should any of this be surprising? The only album session where they didn't fight was during the making of the White Album (as far as we know).

They did fight with each other during the White album and Stevie said they were threatening that they didn't want to be in the band with each other anymore. But she says she didn't even participate that time, because she still felt like her position was tenuous. She just observed them all fighting.

Michele

[vivfox]

Originally Posted by michelej1

They did fight with each other during the White album and Stevie said they were threatening that they didn't want to be in the band with each other anymore. But she says she didn't even participate that time, because she still felt like her position was tenuous. She just observed them all fighting.

I never heard any of this before. I agree with SpyNote.

[AncientQueen]

Right now I don't see the relevance of a new album. Who cares about a FM album, aside from some fans and some people who needs gifts for people who have everything.

I get touring, but the creative output of the band has been minimal for decades now, with (imho) no member being particulary successful in a solo effort, neither creativly nor finanicially. So Stevie knows better than everyone else how good her material is right now, how Lindsey will produce her stuff, what conflicts they will have over it, she knows how the marketing will work, how good the album will sell. The EP wasn't exactly a success. Stevie knows the game, she is playing it for decades. Maybe she is right with "it isn't worth it".

[lilyfee]

It seems like Stevie has always sort of done what people told her to do. Unlike with say, Lindsey, who follows his creative muse wherever that takes him, Stevie grapples with the plight of being hugely successful, feeling like she has to do the same hit songs over and over again at every show ever, with FM or in her solo work... And her solo work is always second to Fleetwood Mac. She dutifully comes through with an album when she has to fulfill a quota for her record company, she tours extensively with FM even though she wants a break...

I imagine the Christine thing isn't her faking it and dragging her feet for publicity. She's probably really conflicted because she feels pressure to do the album for all the reasons we've said -- they're all getting older, Christine's back, fans would like it, etc. -- but also she's tired... Yeah, she's getting older, so shouldn't she use this time to do what she wants to do for once? She's always talking about all these projects she wants to do, such as a Rhiannon movie, or a one-woman show of all the songs we don't usually see, yet she doesn't have any time to do them because FM always interferes!

I would love to see another album with all five members, but I would want them to be happy and engaged. If that happens with four members, I'd still like to hear what they come out with.

But then again, my interest is in the music and not the money. If they would rock the songs they've never, or only rarely, performed in concert, but want to play, I would pay to see that, even if the hits were dropped. Same with Stevie's solo career.

In fact, I think you can tell when Stevie's really into what she's doing. She's been very into it lately performing tributes to other artists and interacting with other groups and people... But I can see why she might be going through the motions a little with FM at this point. I saw them this year and they were so amazing, so it pains me to think she was not feeling it so much. In a perfect world they'd all be happy to be there. Give her the break, and reconvene organically so the dates and obligations don't get in the way!

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by AncientQueen

Right now I don't see the relevance of a new album. Who cares about a FM album, aside from some fans and some people who needs gifts for people who have everything.

I get touring, but the creative output of the band has been minimal for decades now, with (imho) no member being particulary successful in a solo effort, neither creativly nor finanicially. So Stevie knows better than everyone else how good her material is right now, how Lindsey will produce her stuff, what conflicts they will have over it, she knows how the marketing will work, how good the album will sell. The EP wasn't exactly a success. Stevie knows the game, she is playing it for decades. Maybe she is right with "it isn't worth it".

interesting thought....

I watched the recent interview with Ken Caillat on some local Santa Barbara chat show that someone posted in another thread... and he told a story of how it was Stevie who, as they were going in to make Rumours, said basically, listen we're having all this success and our next album could be really successful so let's not fight and break up let's continue and be even more successful. And I stumbled across and interview with the late John Stewart online and in it he recounted how, during the making of his Bombs Away Dream Babies album she was encouraging him in making a commercially-viable album saying (according to him) 'we've all made the other kind of album (artistic but not commercially successful) and having a hit album is so much more fun' We've always known she's the most image-conscious and is totally into selling as many copies of her albums as she can. (As Christine noted, 'she's a brand' and she's very savvy about it). So I'm sure she's thought about the sales figures.

But even she's got to know by now that NO ONE is selling vast numbers of albums anymore. That's in the past. Not even her solo stuff will sell big.

The question is, if she doesn't want to work with FM, what *does* she want to do next? She really hasn't said--we assume another solo LP, but we don't know. Yes she's mentioned at times she might like to do another Vault-type album, but she's been very quiet in any interviews about what exactly her next work goal is... she just seems to talk a lot about going off to her Malibu trailer or whatever.

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by AncientQueen

Right now I don't see the relevance of a new album. Who cares about a FM album, aside from some fans and some people who needs gifts for people who have everything.

I get touring, but the creative output of the band has been minimal for decades now, with (imho) no member being particulary successful in a solo effort, neither creativly nor finanicially. So Stevie knows better than everyone else how good her material is right now, how Lindsey will produce her stuff, what conflicts they will have over it, she knows how the marketing will work, how good the album will sell. The EP wasn't exactly a success. Stevie knows the game, she is playing it for decades. Maybe she is right with "it isn't worth it".

Nobody cared about the EP because 1) the music was poor 2) it wasn't the full Rumours lineup 3) the EP was digital download only (not exactly the core FM fanbase medium of choice) 4) it wasn't a full album.

I disagree about nobody caring about a new album, though. Look how well the Eagles last album sold. FM needs one last studio album with the Rumours 5 to tie up there legacy. And it needs to be a great one. If they do that, they can truly go out on top all while having something vital and creative to say. It could be a great critical coup for the band.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by lilyfee

It seems like Stevie has always sort of done what people told her to do. Unlike with say, Lindsey, who follows his creative muse wherever that takes him, Stevie grapples with the pAnd her solo work is always second to Fleetwood Mac. She dutifully comes through with an album when she has to fulfill a quota for her record company, she tours extensively with FM even though she wants a break...

She's always talking about all these projects she wants to do, such as a Rhiannon movie, or a one-woman show of all the songs we don't usually see, yet she doesn't have any time to do them because FM always interferes!

I actually think it's Lindsey who's dropped his solo work for FM way more than Stevie over the years. That may be in part because he sells more, or his music get to "more ears" with FM than on a solo album, but nevertheless... I don't recall any aborted Stevie solo LPs due to FM....shortened tours maybe...

And Stevie frankly had a fair bit of time, especially late 80s and into the 90s for all the projects that piled up over the years... blame her drug use and other life choices for a lot of that work not getting done. Or her unwillingness to block out time and say no to other stuff. I mean, sure it's fun to take off and follow the Heartbreakers around on tour (more than once) but that comes at the expense of other stuff.... didn't she say her manager told her the last time she went off with Tom that that time on the road with him was all her vacation time for the year??

Yes FM has been a leash that pulls her back, but her need to party and have fun and socialize versus buckling down sometimes has also wasted huge chunks of time over the years.

[WildHearted]

Originally Posted by elle

except they tried getting her to record in 2014. she said no.

it almost seems like they were trying to bluff her into recording in the first 6 months of 2014 by setting up the tour in the fall and saying "gotta do it now, cause we'll tour later and there will be no time". didn't work.

Right - and at that point she knew she was about to have to go back on tour with them and wanted some time for herself to do the 24KG stuff.

If they had postponed touring until after the album was finished, PERIOD, then she would have had time to do 24KG and take a vacation and potentially be ready then to tackle recording with them.

Again, I'm not saying that it WOULD have worked out - I just think they would have had a better shot of eventually getting her to do something on the album if they didn't try to tour for like 3 years straight and then do an album directly after.

[lilyfee]

Good point about Lindsey... Was more referring to how he seems to have more creative control over his work, but you're right, that has come at the expense of often having to merge solo projects with Fleetwood Mac.

I think not having obligations is what Stevie wants. She seemed like she was really enjoying herself onstage with the Heartbreakers, and I don't think she looks back and sees that as wasted time. I mean she's 67 years old! Most people retire around that age, and it's about time she learned to choose what projects were more important to her.

As far as selling future albums or staying relevant goes, FM is not fading into irrelevance, as some may think. Stevie is right to go on TV shows like American Horror Story to appeal to a wider audience. I'm in college, and I watch AHS with a regular group every week when it's on, and since her episodes aired, I've lent a bunch of people CDs of both FM and her solo work. Also helped with her image, I think... For people of my generation who have definitely heard of her but don't know all the details of her career and personal life, she comes off very godmotherly, like her "white witch" image in AHS.

With the right kind of publicity, i.e. getting your (new) music on a popular TV show or movie, especially one with an already great soundtrack, you can definitely actually sell albums, because otherwise how would consumers even know new music is out there? The average young person is definitely not watching a morning or daytime talk show... That tactic is trying to appeal to the mainstream but kinda missing the target audience IMHO.

There's a reason Rumours-era FM is still so popular today, and it's because it's good music. People like and will buy good music, it's just a matter of getting it on the radio or on Pandora, or on TV or social media, or panels at a con... some medium that people are already watching. Look at Cher, who keeps herself in the news just by tweeting!

Wow, that was a huge tangent. But I think in part the lack of effort to reach out holds Fleetwood Mac back. Lindsey visiting USC and Stevie showing up on AHS and Glee probably made at least 20% of those audiences go on Youtube and look up the band just because their interest was piqued. I wish they weren't so removed from social media in some ways, because then they could see the effect their music still has on people and maybe be inspired to make more, even if not in a conventional way. Just getting one new song on the radio would be a jumping off point for the entire band to sell a new album (and old albums) well.

[Angie1980]

Well that article sure took off some of the excitement about spending tons of money on flying to London from Sweden on Wednesday to see the show Thursday😔

[krrrby]

Some of you here have some real damn issues with these 5 living up to your individual-specific expectations. I think Stevie spelled it out perfectly here.

They've been touring 3 years solid. She wants a break and as far as I'm concerned it is well deserved of her to take time off as she damn well pleases.

Stevie and Lindsey don't get along, what's new?

Did you all really expect FM to pull an album out of their ass just like that and then giving Stevie all the hate because she wants to take some time off?

I think some of you in here should be ashamed of your comments. New music or not we should be lucky they are still around doing what they do, and politics aside, we should be savoring these moments of music that they are delivering despite how old the songs are, how often they play them, and how tired they are.

It is NOT for anyone here to be judging how this group wants to create an album, and some of you need to take it down a notch.

In my opinion, I would rather have a great sounding Fleetwood Mac record from 5 well-rested individuals who want to love to make music and take the time to make a great record, not being shoved, forced, or coerced into a record because we have to have it right this second without care of the feelings of certain people in this band.

Geezaloo people. Get a grip.

[elle]

Originally Posted by Angie1980

Well that article sure took off some of the excitement about spending tons of money on flying to London from Sweden on Wednesday to see the show Thursday��

don't think that way, go and enjoy, i'm sure it will be an amazing show!!

Christine, Lindsey, John and Mick are having the time of their lives up there and it radiates from that stage. and yes Stevie sometimes does too, and sometimes just goes through the motions but if you don't sit on her sidestage from where that's the most visible you won't even notice. i guess it depends on the day, what aches she has or how tired she is - so here's hoping you catch her on the good day!