Has Fm.lb,sn Reached Their End?

[Morgana]

Originally Posted by KarmaContestant

As a fan, sales are irrelevant. Popularity doesn't matter. Radio play is meaningless. I have the music, I love it, and I can listen whenever I want - thus my needs as a fan are met.

My opinion is that Stevie & Lindsey and Fleetwood Mac haven't reached their limit until they officially retire. I'm guessing that can't really be that far away. It's easy to talk the talk, but when Stevie & company hit their 70s, I seriously doubt she'll be feeling up to touring or working very much.

And theres that saying, "All good things must come to an end!" best describes the fact that in a few more years they will be in their 70's and like you said, SN & company won't be up for touring. But wait.......there may still be life if Mick Jagger from the Stones keeps on performing as they near their 70's, FM and SN can't let Mick get one up on them. Stevie has always had fragile health and her recent bout with pnemonia sp?) hit her hard.

I my humble FM and SN opinion, for what it's worth (no pun intended) they nver got back their momentum after Tusk. I often wonder had they told Lindsey to take a hike with wanting to command Tusk if things would have been different for their sales. Lindsey refused to do another Rumours and hurt more so than helped their sales and popularity, not to mention the radio station that played the album which fans taped. So Lindsey seems to have hurt more than helped. But......oddly enough the Dance and Bill Clinton boosted them. But the other band members criticzed him too and blamed him for his taking over. Clinton's campaign song was off Rumours, "Don't Stop" The Dance brought back the popularity of Rumours and thts why it was a hit. But I seriously doubt if they will do another tour because by the time they start a new album, and FM takes their time, the time frame to do another album would put them at their late 60's, early 70's. And if Stevie goes on tour to promote IYD it will take even longer.
Sad but true, good gosh I feel old!

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by Morgana

I my humble FM and SN opinion, for what it's worth (no pun intended) they nver got back their momentum after Tusk. !

No doubt! Even Mick admits it in his book. But I guess the momentum would have ended no matter how Tusk or a Rumours-II (what I think it would have been really bad in terms of sales and critics!) had done. The 70s bands suffered, most of them, from a dinosaur label and many of them couldn't evolve or even survive. I think Fleetwood Mac did it fine in the 80s. Tango did better than Mirage, I guess. But we couldn't ask them to repeat the 70s phenomenom.

But let's see what Mick wrote about ending the Tusk tour:

Three days later, in front of a sold-out audience at the Hollywood Bowl, Lindsey leaned into the mike and announced, "This is our last concert . .. for a long time." I'll never forget Stevie's "Landslide" that night, the way she sang about growing older in her scratchy, uncertain voice. It was an ineffable moment. After the show, we had a classic locker-room victory celebration kisses, hugs, champagne, intense feelings of relief mingled with fatigue. To me it felt like the end of an era. And it indeed turned out to be exactly that.

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by Villavic

But let's see what Mick wrote about ending the Tusk tour:

Three days later, in front of a sold-out audience at the Hollywood Bowl, Lindsey leaned into the mike and announced, "This is our last concert . .. for a long time." I'll never forget Stevie's "Landslide" that night, the way she sang about growing older in her scratchy, uncertain voice. It was an ineffable moment. After the show, we had a classic locker-room victory celebration kisses, hugs, champagne, intense feelings of relief mingled with fatigue. To me it felt like the end of an era. And it indeed turned out to be exactly that.

EXACTLY!! Lindsey AND Stevie should've "gone their own way" right after that tour...instead of launching a half-assed, rushed between Fleetwood Mac albums solo careers, just dive in head first...go for it all. Let Mick, John & Christine start fresh again. But, no...we got the insomnia inducing, interminably long breaks between albums & tours. And, was there any kind of growth in those breaks? Not really...not from a songwriting aspect...sure, Lindsey had newly developed studio toys & effects to play with, but that's about it. Strip away that production and any of their songs could've been from any other album.

Basically, they WASTED their time, OUR time, everybody's time in the 80's.

And, despite the "bump" in popularity The Dance had, I still claim that '97 Rumours five reunion was the WORST thing that Fleetwood Mac could've done, and sure enough did.

[cbBen]

I think the Mirage video showcases the band with a fire unmatched before or after. It would have been quite a shame had they parted company before such a triumph. Mirage may be all over the place, but the concert is not.

Lindsey was right to take the band another way after Rumours. Bear in mind that you need songs like "The Chain" and "Go Your Own Way" to make a record like that. It's not just a matter of production style.

You think Sara would have worked better as a Rumours-style production? No way. It is not sufficiently dynamic.

But the album is too long and has too many songs. Take the twelve best songs you have the best of both worlds, and one of the great records of all time. As it is, I have to rate it as my favorite Fleetwood Mac record, but I guess that's a debate for another thread.

Lindsey's importance to the band is fully demonstrated by Behind The Mask and Time. They simply could not survive without him. Lindsey must realize, however--and I think he finally has--that he needs them just as much as they need him.

With Christine gone (and people, she is gone), it can never be called Fleetwood Mac without any of the current four. So they're in it together, as much or as little as any of them may like it. They all should appreciate the opportunity and value the tremendous talent each of them can bring to the band.

I think Lindsey fails to appreciate fully what Stevie brings to the table, and I don't see as much in the reverse. Lindsey and Stevie are made to sing together.

It will go on. There's too much money to be made, if nothing else, and I don't say that as a slight to anyone's integrity.

[Morgana]

Originally Posted by cbBen

. Lindsey and Stevie are made to sing together.

It will go on. There's too much money to be made, if nothing else, and I don't say that as a slight to anyone's integrity.

No doubt...and Stevie said that in an interview once that she and Lindsey would have to be in the band for the next 100 yrs, it was their Karma!

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by cbBen

Lindsey's importance to the band is fully demonstrated by Behind The Mask and Time. They simply could not survive without him. Lindsey must realize, however--and I think he finally has--that he needs them just as much as they

For me, OOTC showed he needed them more than BTM or Time showed they needed him. Even on UTS, my favorite songs are the ones with Mick and John. "Down On Rodeo" is pure Fleetwood Mac joy. I wish it would've been on SYW instead of a few other songs.

Christine's departure has hurt them more than anything. In a perfect world (no pun intended), she'd still be there. I'd rather they not tour anymore, get Christine back, and make an album every two years. Actually, they could ditch s*tty Ian & Sylvia, and bring back Billy (who sounds amazing with Christine, IMO). I say that because "Love Shines" from the box set makes me wish Mick, John, Chris, and Billy would've done a whole album with Patrick Leonard producing. I think that's the best post-Tusk song the band's done to date, and Lindsey and Stevie weren't on it. The days of big hit records are over (industry wide, that is), so they might as well do it just for fun. Ditch the overplayed drama. Isn't it weird that the two people who actually got divorced are able to still be friends without any drama?

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Isn't it weird that the two people who actually got divorced are able to still be friends without any drama?

I don't know that there wasn't any drama. They just didn't run to the press with it. At this point in 2011, if they talk about gardens or recipes in email occasionally, I'm sure there's no stress, 35 years down the line.

But in the past, Christine pointed out that she didn't let John know how much she still cared about him, because he would only take advantage of that. She also said that he wasn't comfortable spending a lot of time with her. She said that Lindsey and Stevie actually got along quite well when they were working out a song, while she and John never had that ease with each other, back then.

So, I think that after the divorce, even though he had remarried (and Chris did too) there was tension. It was probably escalated by the fact that John continued to drink. According to Stevie, he was still drinking around the time of The Dance.

Michele

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I don't know that there wasn't any drama. They just didn't run to the press with it. At this point in 2011, if they talk about gardens or recipes in email occasionally, I'm sure there's no stress, 35 years down the line.

But in the past, Christine pointed out that she didn't let John know how much she still cared about him, because he would only take advantage of that. She also said that he wasn't comfortable spending a lot of time with her. She said that Lindsey and Stevie actually got along quite well when they were working out a song, while she and John never had that ease with each other, back then.

So, I think that after the divorce, even though he had remarried (and Chris did too) there was tension. It was probably escalated by the fact that John continued to drink. According to Stevie, he was still drinking around the time of The Dance.

Maybe immediately. But, by 1984, John was helping Chris with solo songs like "Love Will Show Us How" and "The Challenge" (named after John's boat). And in 1992, she lent him her keyboards for his first (and only) solo album. Chris also said that John was like a brother, a good brother at that. If nothing else, at least they didn't air their dirty laundry like the others. Dignity after 35 years. Look it up Stevie and Lindsey.

[holidayroad]

Originally Posted by cbBen

I think the Mirage video showcases the band with a fire unmatched before or after. It would have been quite a shame had they parted company before such a triumph. Mirage may be all over the place, but the concert is not.

Very well said!

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by cbBen

I think the Mirage video showcases the band with a fire unmatched before or after. It would have been quite a shame had they parted company before such a triumph. Mirage may be all over the place, but the concert is not..

You're blinded by what you were fed. The Mirage video is a compilation of multiple nights of filming, not one complete show...some songs are even spliced together from different performances. (I know, I was at both concerts that they filmed...what I saw on the TV screen was definitely NOT what I saw on the concert stage). There were only slight glimpses of "fire" throughout either show (all of those instances seemed to make the final edit of the video, however). "Triumph"?? PULEEEEEEZE, gimme a break. {rolls eyes} That video was just a big heap of musical propaganda that obviously you & most Fleetwood Mac fans ate up like unlimited amounts of chocolate mousse. "Mirage" was aptly titled, because that's what you were watching and thinking it being a "Triumph"...a flimsy mirage.

[cbBen]

Well then whoever put the video together had spot-on taste (save for including Not That Funny). It is a triumph, even if unrepresentative of a single show, and I still say it would be quite a shame were we without it.

[holidayroad]

Originally Posted by chiliD

You're blinded by what you were fed. The Mirage video is a compilation of multiple nights of filming, not one complete show...some songs are even spliced together from different performances. (I know, I was at both concerts that they filmed...what I saw on the TV screen was definitely NOT what I saw on the concert stage). There were only slight glimpses of "fire" throughout either show (all of those instances seemed to make the final edit of the video, however). "Triumph"?? PULEEEEEEZE, gimme a break. {rolls eyes} That video was just a big heap of musical propaganda that obviously you & most Fleetwood Mac fans ate up like unlimited amounts of chocolate mousse. "Mirage" was aptly titled, because that's what you were watching and thinking it being a "Triumph"...a flimsy mirage.

It's still better than the Tango in the Night video..............

[On Ice]

I have to agree with CBen about the Mirage Video, it has its utterly hot moments but I'm left wanting more Christine and Stevie. Why two long Lindsey guitar solos in I'm So Afraid and Not That Funny? Also, besides those moments, the fact that the members of the band were not united stood out like a sore thumb and I think they all needed a serious talking to at the time to remind them what brought them together in the first place. If that had happened, we may have been sitting here today talking about at least three or four classic 80's albums but instead we have two pleasant, but far from classic Mirage and Tango to talk about.

**Sorry, not Cbben, Chilli D

[cbBen]

As it happens the Mirage video is what turned me on to Fleetwood Mac in the first place.

I was at a friend's preparing to watch something altogether different, when I saw she had this Fleewtood Mac video. I had actually been a Fleetwood Mac detractor at the time of the Clinton inauguration.

Anyway, I decided to check out a bit of the Mirage Video as a sort of "opening act" for the video we were about to watch. Stevie's vocals on The Chain shook me by the shoulders, and the rest is history.

[BaronVonBielski]

SYW went gold by July and it was released in April... that's not half bad. I read somewhere at last look it had sold close to 900k units. So if that's true, if they release an album in the future or tour or both it will likely push it back a million. A #3 debut in 2003 isn't necessarily bad, in fact I believe it sold over 300k to land that spot. Nowadays you'd be #1 for sure... half that gets you the top spot. I wish it had done better. If LB was thinking more straight up rock and roll it may have done better. If Christine were there it would have done a bit better. Hopefully they'll do another album and just do what they do best. That's good enough for me.