new Dashut blog - Truth & Consequences (My Times with FM)

[elle]

also, for whatever that's worth, with still no word on vegas show happenings -

@27holeheadpro May 6
@Stacy_B @RichardDashut @fleetwoodmac has the blog stopped because of lb or sn objections? Curious about the Vegas show.

‏@Stacy_B
@27holeheadpro @RichardDashut @fleetwoodmac not at all

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I should say with Christine, I think the people she does love, she loves unconditionally and maybe too much and too long (Dennis) but because she doesn't suffer fools gladly, I think her warmth and affection stays within her circle of friends and family and, of course, is always available to animals.

Michele

This. Christine has always seemed extremely tough & resilient- iron clad. She appears to have a limited inner sanctum she is very loving towards, but seems to be rather cool to the rest of the world. Not necessarily in a bad way- just very guarded and almost male in the way she approaches life & relationships (meaning friendships, family, colleagues, AND romances).

I will say this, though- Christine is the one person in the band I'd never, ever want to piss off. I just get the distinct feeling she's not someone you'd want to cross.

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

AFAIK(and have evidence to back it up), Chris(my FM heroine!!!!) kept Bob Welch out of the R&RHOF. Very, VERY wrong. And that was a very hard pill for me to swallow. But I did, finally.
So no one is a saint(except maybe John). They all have faults, and frailties.
They're no better than us, other than writing songs that made them famous...

Yeah, the whole Bob RRHOF thing was a hard one for me, too. Because Christine seems the very opposite of petty, or retaliatory. I guess to her, his suing FM crossed a very distinct line in the sand. Christine definitely seems like to Mama Bird of the band- she's totally cool until you mess with her brood!

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

I will say this, though- Christine is the one person in the band I'd never, ever want to piss off. I just get the distinct feeling she's not someone you'd want to cross.

I don't think they are forgiving lot. I think Mick is probably the nicest, softest touch one in the bunch. He's probably the only one I think I could safely anger. I don't think Mick holds grudges. The others probably have very long memories.

Michele

[teedeerocks]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I don't think that's really Christine's personality. I think she's more grounded than the rest of them, but I really don't see her as particularly loving. I mean, she probably loves every dog and can't bear the thought of a single one being hurt, (unless she hated Ken's dog too), but I don't think she feels the same snugly way about PEOPLE.

Michele

Yeah I agree.She said that at the very first FM reunion concert at the O2,she didn't cry(tears of joy).I mean,she made it a point to say that.But then again,she is a British woman with British sensibilities....

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

Yeah, the whole Bob RRHOF thing was a hard one for me, too. Because Christine seems the very opposite of petty, or retaliatory. I guess to her, his suing FM crossed a very distinct line in the sand. Christine definitely seems like to Mama Bird of the band- she's totally cool until you mess with her brood!

I concur. And while I love Bob Welch, and it was so wrong for her to keep him out of the induction....AT THE SAME TIME, we're all human, and you have to put yourself in her(their) shoes, and think about how WE'D feel if we were being sued by someone(whether or not they were in the right or wrong, in suing us). That's gonna feel like you're being attacked, regardless...

I don't stand behind the way the cards fell, but I guess I understand why and how it happened. It still sucks, though.

INDUCT BOB WELCH!!!!

[PenguinHead]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I don't think that's really Christine's personality. I think she's more grounded than the rest of them, but I really don't see her as particularly loving. I mean, she probably loves every dog and can't bear the thought of a single one being hurt, (unless she hated Ken's dog too), but I don't think she feels the same snugly way about PEOPLE.

Michele

I think you got that right. Christine is very personable, practical and fair-minded, but, in general, she's not exactly the warm and fuzzy type. She seems to keeps her emotions in check, but she won't hesitate to call out bullsh*t when she sees bullsh*t.

Do we really know why Bob Welch was overlooked in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame? Can any speculation or theories be confirmed?

From what I recall, Christine has expressed much respect for Bob. They had formed a close relationship as they carried the band through several re-configurations. Fleetwood Mac was supportive of his solo career, contributing to his solo recording of Sentimental Lady. What am I missing?

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by PenguinHead

I think you got that right. Christine is very personable, practical and fair-minded, but, in general, she's not exactly the warm and fuzzy type. She seems to keeps her emotions in check, but she won't hesitate to call out bullsh*t when she sees bullsh*t.

Do we really know why Bob Welch was overlooked in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame? Can any speculation or theories be confirmed?

From what I recall, Christine has expressed much respect for Bob. They had a close relationship, and she has credited him for keeping the band together in the lean latter years. Fleetwood Mac was supportive of his solo career, contributing to his solo recording of Sentimental Lady.

Bob's wife Wendy swears that the RRHOF induction happened while Bob was suing the band (for back royalties that he never received), and that Christine told Mick, "if Bob Welch is there, I won't be". So Mick had to choose who was coming.

It was the wrong decision, but give him credit, Mick has always known, on which side his toast was buttered.

[FuzzyPlum]

Originally Posted by PenguinHead

Welch was overlooked in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame? Can any speculation or theories be confirmed?

I think there's possibly too much conjecture surrounding this. Despite what has been said I'm not sure the bands themselves have that much influence. The R&R Hall of Fame is a ridiculous organisation- it means pretty much nothing outside the U.S. anyway.

I guess the whole point of the R&R Hall of Fame is to celebrate the most successful and influential artists. For its own credibility (not that it has much) I'm sure they want to limit the inductees to only those that truly merit recognition. I keep hearing about all members of The Grateful Dead being inducted but that is very much a one-off. The vast majority of bands with multiple line-ups only have a small number of members inducted- where possible the line-ups most closely associated with the time of the bands greatest success. There are many examples of significant members of bands that were never inducted. A prime example would be the omission of Bruce Johnson from the Beach Boys. In some cases where bands have members coming and going on a regular basis it must be tough identifying which members merit inclusion. In Fleetwood Mac's case it is fairly easy to see the distinction between the different eras.

Bob Welch was a vital member of Fleetwood Mac. However, he was never a truly influential musician and never had that much commercial success. The early band had huge success in the UK and Europe and were extremely influential. Even more so the 'Rumours' era band. The question is- would Fleetwood Mac have been inducted into the R&R Hall of Fame simply on their body of work from 1970-1974. The answer is a resounding no. I love the music from that period- I particularly love Christine McVie's songs from that period as well as those of Danny Kirwan. Bob Welch's songs were consistently good, though not absolutely great (though I particularly love Future Games, Sentimental Lady and Hypnotized). Bare Trees, Mystery To Me and Heroes Are Hard To Find are among my favourite albums. In his entire career though, Bob never hit the top 10 with an album (he never broke the top 30 with FM) and only once made the top 10 with a single.

If Bob Welch had been inducted then there would have been a case for Billy Burnette and Rick Vito. If they had been inducted then you are looking at viable arguments for adding Bob, Dave, Dave, Bekka, and even Bob Brunning. As Mason had already been inducted he would have been in line for a second induction- would he really have merited it? I'd say no.

Christine may have had personal reasons for not wanting Bob Welch inducted and she may even have been openly vocal about it. However, I'm not sure her voice really held that much sway over the closed shop that decide on inductees. Bob Welch seemed like a lovely guy and steered the band through a difficult period. Unfortunately he just wasn't really a tremendously notable artist in the wider scheme of things.

...and that's just my opinion.

[MikeVielhaber]

Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum

I think there's possibly too much conjecture surrounding this. Despite what has been said I'm not sure the bands themselves have that much influence. The R&R Hall of Fame is a ridiculous organisation- it means pretty much nothing outside the U.S. anyway.

I guess the whole point of the R&R Hall of Fame is to celebrate the most successful and influential artists. For its own credibility (not that it has much) I'm sure they want to limit the inductees to only those that truly merit recognition. I keep hearing about all members of The Grateful Dead being inducted but that is very much a one-off. The vast majority of bands with multiple line-ups only have a small number of members inducted- where possible the line-ups most closely associated with the time of the bands greatest success. There are many examples of significant members of bands that were never inducted. A prime example would be the omission of Bruce Johnson from the Beach Boys. In some cases where bands have members coming and going on a regular basis it must be tough identifying which members merit inclusion. In Fleetwood Mac's case it is fairly easy to see the distinction between the different eras.

Bob Welch was a vital member of Fleetwood Mac. However, he was never a truly influential musician and never had that much commercial success. The early band had huge success in the UK and Europe and were extremely influential. Even more so the 'Rumours' era band. The question is- would Fleetwood Mac have been inducted into the R&R Hall of Fame simply on their body of work from 1970-1974. The answer is a resounding no. I love the music from that period- I particularly love Christine McVie's songs from that period as well as those of Danny Kirwan. Bob Welch's songs were consistently good, though not absolutely great (though I particularly love Future Games, Sentimental Lady and Hypnotized). Bare Trees, Mystery To Me and Heroes Are Hard To Find are among my favourite albums. In his entire career though, Bob never hit the top 10 with an album (he never broke the top 30 with FM) and only once made the top 10 with a single.

If Bob Welch had been inducted then there would have been a case for Billy Burnette and Rick Vito. If they had been inducted then you are looking at viable arguments for adding Bob, Dave, Dave, Bekka, and even Bob Brunning. As Mason had already been inducted he would have been in line for a second induction- would he really have merited it? I'd say no.

Christine may have had personal reasons for not wanting Bob Welch inducted and she may even have been openly vocal about it. However, I'm not sure her voice really held that much sway over the closed shop that decide on inductees. Bob Welch seemed like a lovely guy and steered the band through a difficult period. Unfortunately he just wasn't really a tremendously notable artist in the wider scheme of things.

...and that's just my opinion.

You have bands like Red Hot Chili peppers and Metallica who inducted current members who had only been on the most recent release of their respective bands at the time of induction. Both releases only about 6 months old at the time of induction and neither major successes for the band relative to their past releases. I'm sure if it were entirely up to the Hall those members would not have been included. Josh Klinghiffer was included for RHCP while Dave Navarro was left off even though Dave's era was a bigger success than Josh's to date.

[MikeInNV]

Originally Posted by MikeVielhaber

You have bands like Red Hot Chili peppers and Metallica who inducted current members who had only been on the most recent release of their respective bands at the time of induction. Both releases only about 6 months old at the time of induction and neither major successes for the band relative to their past releases. I'm sure if it were entirely up to the Hall those members would not have been included. Josh Klinghiffer was included for RHCP while Dave Navarro was left off even though Dave's era was a bigger success than Josh's to date.

The rules must not be very clear, or at least not strictly enforced. The members of Blondie couldn't keep their animosity in check during the ceremony, and it seemed like Deborah Harry and Chris Stein would have preferred a couple of the former members not be there. Stein also publicly complained about them being inducted when their replacements, who by that point had actually spent more time in the band, were not inducted/honored. (For what it's worth, I thought that argument was silly since Blondie was obviously being honored for what they accomplished in the 70s and early 80s, and the new guys were essentially hired hands when the band reformed at the end of the 90s.)

[StreetAngel86]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

AFAIK(and have evidence to back it up), Chris(my FM heroine!!!!) kept Bob Welch out of the R&RHOF. Very, VERY wrong. And that was a very hard pill for me to swallow. But I did, finally.
So no one is a saint(except maybe John). They all have faults, and frailties.
They're no better than us, other than writing songs that made them famous...

yeah but you don't know why?
maybe he was a wanker?

I have no idea
I'm just putting it out there.
You don't just generally hate on someone for no reason.

[MikeVielhaber]

Originally Posted by MikeInNV

The rules must not be very clear, or at least not strictly enforced. The members of Blondie couldn't keep their animosity in check during the ceremony, and it seemed like Deborah Harry and Chris Stein would have preferred a couple of the former members not be there. Stein also publicly complained about them being inducted when their replacements, who by that point had actually spent more time in the band, were not inducted/honored. (For what it's worth, I thought that argument was silly since Blondie was obviously being honored for what they accomplished in the 70s and early 80s, and the new guys were essentially hired hands when the band reformed at the end of the 90s.)

Yeah I don't know how that works. It does seem inconsistent. It would be unreasonable for Blondie to try and exclude members from the era for which they're largely if not entirely being inducted. But then they couldn't get more current members in while Metallica and RHCP could. Josh Klinghoffer is officially the youngest inductee simply because he was inducted with a band he had only been in, in terms of recorded output and live performances, for about 6 months. That one album barely went Gold in the U.S for a band that hadn't seen less than multi platinum success since 1989 and less than platinum since 1987. And then you had KISS publicly criticizing their induction because the Hall would only recognize their "classic" lineup and they felt others deserved to be included.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by StreetAngel86

yeah but you don't know why?
maybe he was a wanker?

I have no idea
I'm just putting it out there.
You don't just generally hate on someone for no reason.

No, I posted it in another post.

At the time, Bob was suing the band over royalties that he was due.

That was apparently enough, and Chris was pissed enough, to insist that she wouldn't attend the RRHOF induction, if Bob was there.

[starshine]

Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum

I think there's possibly too much conjecture surrounding this. Despite what has been said I'm not sure the bands themselves have that much influence. The R&R Hall of Fame is a ridiculous organisation- it means pretty much nothing outside the U.S. anyway.

I guess the whole point of the R&R Hall of Fame is to celebrate the most successful and influential artists. For its own credibility (not that it has much) I'm sure they want to limit the inductees to only those that truly merit recognition. I keep hearing about all members of The Grateful Dead being inducted but that is very much a one-off. The vast majority of bands with multiple line-ups only have a small number of members inducted- where possible the line-ups most closely associated with the time of the bands greatest success. There are many examples of significant members of bands that were never inducted. A prime example would be the omission of Bruce Johnson from the Beach Boys. In some cases where bands have members coming and going on a regular basis it must be tough identifying which members merit inclusion. In Fleetwood Mac's case it is fairly easy to see the distinction between the different eras.

Bob Welch was a vital member of Fleetwood Mac. However, he was never a truly influential musician and never had that much commercial success. The early band had huge success in the UK and Europe and were extremely influential. Even more so the 'Rumours' era band. The question is- would Fleetwood Mac have been inducted into the R&R Hall of Fame simply on their body of work from 1970-1974. The answer is a resounding no. I love the music from that period- I particularly love Christine McVie's songs from that period as well as those of Danny Kirwan. Bob Welch's songs were consistently good, though not absolutely great (though I particularly love Future Games, Sentimental Lady and Hypnotized). Bare Trees, Mystery To Me and Heroes Are Hard To Find are among my favourite albums. In his entire career though, Bob never hit the top 10 with an album (he never broke the top 30 with FM) and only once made the top 10 with a single.

If Bob Welch had been inducted then there would have been a case for Billy Burnette and Rick Vito. If they had been inducted then you are looking at viable arguments for adding Bob, Dave, Dave, Bekka, and even Bob Brunning. As Mason had already been inducted he would have been in line for a second induction- would he really have merited it? I'd say no.

Christine may have had personal reasons for not wanting Bob Welch inducted and she may even have been openly vocal about it. However, I'm not sure her voice really held that much sway over the closed shop that decide on inductees. Bob Welch seemed like a lovely guy and steered the band through a difficult period. Unfortunately he just wasn't really a tremendously notable artist in the wider scheme of things.

...and that's just my opinion.

I don't know much about the RRHOF induction --that is what criteria has to be met to get in. Isn't 25 yrs or something? Isn't it voted by musicians etc? Anyway, I didn't mind Bob Welch's songs in FMac and some solo. My only question is (or statement) Without the Bob Welch era of this band would we even be talking about the Fleetwood Mac band the most of us Love?? really than you could go from the beginning of the band. Without one there isn't another really. Not that I am a big listener of there older stuff (really). So maybe he should be inducted just because of this. But there are a lot of artists still out there that never get it and may never will. Anyway, it doesn't really matter to me much but just a thought anyway. No offense but I guess I thought it was worth saying.