Neil Finn on Fleetwood Mac internal politics

[SteveMacD]

Sweet Jesus, please say we’re not going to have a long round of pissing over semantics like “divorce” versus “fired” and pretend like a lot hasn’t come out since the lawsuit, like Brett’s interview, the replies from Stevie and especially Irving (“I have historically declined comment on artists, but in the case of Lindsey Buckingham, I will make an exception”), or the fact Mick and Lindsey reconciled after Peter died.

The band fired Lindsey and toured with two other guys. It’s over, it’s done, Christine has since died, and the band isn’t getting back together.

Let it be.

[elle]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Brett’s interview, the replies from Stevie and especially Irving (“I have historically declined comment on artists, but in the case of Lindsey Buckingham, I will make an exception”)

exactly. and this interview makes it crystal clear that Stevie (and Azoff) statements were complete bs.

i wonder whether Azoff's power in music world waned when Neil was willing to spill this out.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by elle

i wonder whether Azoff's power in music world waned when Neil was willing to spill this out.

At first I thought Neil would need to clean up his comments but he has no plan of working with Stevie again. He’s putting out a record with Crowded House this year.

Also, take a look at Irving’s courtroom behavior in the Hotel California case. He acted like Trump does: hostile. He covered up Henley’s abuse of a minor. He’s a Roy Cohn. Him and his buddy James Dolan are both Trumpers. I don’t know if he commands respect anymore. The judge said he and Henley misled the court.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by elle

exactly. and this interview makes it crystal clear that Stevie (and Azoff) statements were complete bs.

How so? Lindsey’s comments about a Buckingham Nicks reunion tour being impossible between legs and Stevie not focusing on new material to Rolling Stone in December, 2012, calling Irving’s baby a cash grab that didn’t speak to the band’s aspirations, and being difficult during tour negotiations were probably, in their minds, fireable offenses that were entirely all on Lindsey. It’s all about perspective.

I mean, yeah, she’s said obnoxious things about him, too, but she’s the reason they’re an arena band. Meanwhile, Irving is arguably the most powerful man in the music industry.

i wonder whether Azoff's power in music world waned when Neil was willing to spill this out.

LOL, absolutely not, don’t be ridiculous. Lindsey Buckingham and Neil Finn are fleas on a dog’s ass as far as he’s concerned, especially now that Fleetwood Mac is done. Outside of diehard Fleetwood Mac fans, people couldn’t care less.

[In Your Dreams]

I wonder what kind of NDAs were signed with the settlement of Lindsey’s lawsuit. I’m assuming Neil and Mike would not have been part of any NDA signed from the Lindsey settlement because they were never legal Fleetwood Mac Inc members or party to the lawsuit. So if a biopic did ever happen about the band, how would Lindsey’s firing be portrayed?

We know Stevie has Ryan Murphy in her stable but Lindsey has some Hollywood connections too. I doubt Lindsey would do this but imagine if he was the first to collaborate with someone to get his version of the Fleetwood Mac story told. That would sure cause a lot of panic for Stevie on how she’d be portrayed. She’d be going to Rolling Stone for sure to get her story out there (again) before a Lindsey backed biopic was made/released. But if all FM members signed NDAs maybe it wouldn’t matter too much because this event would likely not be told based on historical accuracy.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

How so? Lindsey’s comments about a Buckingham Nicks reunion tour being impossible between legs and Stevie not focusing on new material to Rolling Stone in December, 2012, calling Irving’s baby a cash grab that didn’t speak to the band’s aspirations, and being difficult during tour negotiations were probably, in their minds, fireable offenses that were entirely all on Lindsey. It’s all about perspective.

I mean, yeah, she’s said obnoxious things about him, too, but she’s the reason they’re an arena band. Meanwhile, Irving is arguably the most powerful man in the music industry.

If saying things about your bandmates is a fireable offense, the entire band would be fired at one point or other, and Stevie would be at the top of the list.

slagging off your bandmates isn't anything new nor a remotely fireable offense, nor is 'being difficult in tour negotiations' even in rock and roll. The fact that they ultimately settled so quickly with him reinforces the legal system agrees, and "in their minds" it was actually petty chapped buttholes that came into play. So chapping the asses of your bandmates and manager rises to a 'fireable' offense within FM world.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

If saying things about your bandmates is a fireable offense, the entire band would be fired at one point or other, and Stevie would be at the top of the list.

slagging off your bandmates isn't anything new nor a remotely fireable offense, nor is 'being difficult in tour negotiations' even in rock and roll. The fact that they ultimately settled so quickly with him reinforces the legal system agrees, and "in their minds" it was actually petty chapped buttholes that came into play. So chapping the asses of your bandmates and manager rises to a 'fireable' offense within FM world.

You say that as if there was a neutral power dynamic at play.

Slagging on Stevie Nicks after the one person in the world who could be brutally honest with her and talk her off the ledge died (Barbara Nicks) when she needs you less than you need her, yeah, it’s fireable, especially given the contentious dysfunctional relationship between those two.

[anusha]

Once 1) Mike Campbell needed a job and 2) Irving had proven that the Eagles could tour without Glen, anything less than worship of Stevie would have been a fireable offense to Stevie and Irving as far as Lindsey was concerned.

That’s what made the initial PR spin FM did around the firing so absurd and gross. It was always obvious that Stevie demanded that Lindsey be fired or she wouldn’t tour. She just didn’t want to look bad, and when she did get backlash, her groupies like Vanessa Carlton took to twitter to badmouth Lindsey.

And Stevie is the queen of unreasonable tour demands. Separate jets and grand pianos and pink painted suites. Bringing her background singers everywhere. Playing the same set lists. Interminable costume, no make that shawl, changes. Forcing the others to wait for her to finish solo stuff all the time. And I’m sure by the end at least double the share of the tour income of any other member of the band. She just had the power to get away with it and Lindsey didn’t. While we didn’t need proof of all of this, Neil clearly saw this dynamic first hand from how he described the band.

[elle]

Originally Posted by anusha

While we didn’t need proof of all of this, Neil clearly saw this dynamic first hand from how he described the band.

but... but how do you mean?? they were all so happy happy happy happy that tour, no??

[The Catdancer]

Originally Posted by anusha

Once 1) Mike Campbell needed a job and 2) Irving had proven that the Eagles could tour without Glen, anything less than worship of Stevie would have been a fireable offense to Stevie and Irving as far as Lindsey was concerned.

That’s what made the initial PR spin FM did around the firing so absurd and gross. It was always obvious that Stevie demanded that Lindsey be fired or she wouldn’t tour. She just didn’t want to look bad, and when she did get backlash, her groupies like Vanessa Carlton took to twitter to badmouth Lindsey.

And Stevie is the queen of unreasonable tour demands. Separate jets and grand pianos and pink painted suites. Bringing her background singers everywhere. Playing the same set lists. Interminable costume, no make that shawl, changes. Forcing the others to wait for her to finish solo stuff all the time. And I’m sure by the end at least double the share of the tour income of any other member of the band. She just had the power to get away with it and Lindsey didn’t. While we didn’t need proof of all of this, Neil clearly saw this dynamic first hand from how he described the band.

And don't forget she's bringing her own furniture with her...

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

How so? LindseyÂ’s comments about a Buckingham Nicks reunion tour being impossible between legs and Stevie not focusing on new material to Rolling Stone in December, 2012, calling IrvingÂ’s baby a cash grab that didnÂ’t speak to the bandÂ’s aspirations, and being difficult during tour negotiations were probably, in their minds, fireable offenses that were entirely all on Lindsey. ItÂ’s all about perspective.

I get The Classic festival point, difficult in tour negotiations - which I guess means he wanted to do shows on off days, and that Stevie didn't want to make a new album - which he said in 2008 as well.

I don't get the opinion that the Buckingham Nicks Reunion Tour was a hand on the axe that struck him in 2018.

First thing is the 2013 Tour was the most lovefest Stevie and Lindsey FM tour ever. She was dedicating songs to him. She cried real tears when he dedicated Say Goodbye to her. She didn't seem mad at him at all that tour. Tons of smiling.

Second, Stevie talks out of her behind a lot. Examples include the Rhiannon film and now it's a mini-series, a multi-hour concert where she would play songs from every single album from Bella Donna to In Your Dreams (24KG wasn't released when she promised this), a second 24KG album and a tour where she would perform songs she didn't perform from IYD and 24KG on their respective tours, "I don't take vacation after making an album or going on tour" etc.

Third, FM's 2013 North America Tour started April 4 and stopped July 6. The Europe Tour went from September 24 to October 26. I am not sure how many days of rehearsals they had with Christine. We know from Mick's second book that they played a few songs with her but decided they would only do Don't Stop with her. And the plan was to tour Australia and New Zealand in November in December I think. So there could not have been a BN Tour booked for November or December since Stevie always says they get to Australia like a month before the tour starts to adjust to the time change.

It's a fact that Stevie needs rest between legs. Remember how she told Christine to get a trainer because the shows are grueling. Lindsey did mention he wanted to go on vacation with his family in July of 2013 too. Let's just say they didn't need rest. When would there have been time for Buckingham Nicks to rehearse? I think FM rehearsed from March 1 until April.

Lindsey also mentioned that playing in between legs would probably not give them enough time to play a number of shows to make a profit. That doesn't sound like an unintelligible statement by Lindsey but I'm open to understanding if it is.

The thing about Lindsey doing shows in 2018 on off days that perhaps make it different than doing them in 2012 is that Heywood and Tuggle are already on the road with FM. I guess it would have come down to the drummer Jimmy Paxson because he wasn't on the FM Tour. Maybe they would be worried Lindsey's voice would be worse off for doing solo shows on the days off.

Addition to OP: Taku could have played in Lindsey's solo band since he did on the Under The Skin Tour. Maybe even Steve Rinkohv. Mick did an interview for Unleashed where he said he was considering whether or not to bring a percussionist on tour. I guess Lindsey told Mick they could save money by having Steve do percussion. Steve also did his usual behind the scenes drumming on the Say You Will Tour too. It's quite interesting. I'd love for someone to show me a Fleetwood Mac video from 2003 to MusiCares that I can hear a prerecorded track, percussion, or music other than the fake horns in Tusk!

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

I get The Classic festival point, difficult in tour negotiations - which I guess means he wanted to do shows on off days, and that Stevie didn't want to make a new album - which he said in 2008 as well.

I don't get the opinion that the Buckingham Nicks Reunion Tour was a hand on the axe that struck him in 2018.

I wasn’t suggesting Lindsey was wrong about the logistics of doing a Buckingham Nicks tour. That wasn’t the point.

It was the condescending tone and going unnecessarily long and being unnecessarily thorough as to why it wouldn’t be possible AND the way he brought up Stevie’s lack of new music that were the problem. I’m sure some of those comments came back to haunt him.

Seriously, “I agree it should be reissued and I’d love to do a tour in support of Buckingham Nicks. I don’t think there’s going to be enough time this year for a tour, but I’d be open to doing some songs with Fleetwood Mac on the upcoming tour” was all he needed to say.

Ironically, Mick would have been on board with doing Buckingham Nicks songs.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I wasn’t suggesting Lindsey was wrong about the logistics of doing a Buckingham Nicks tour. That wasn’t the point.

It was the condescending tone and going unnecessarily long and being unnecessarily thorough as to why it wouldn’t be possible AND the way he brought up Stevie’s lack of new music that were the problem. I’m sure some of those comments came back to haunt him.

Seriously, “I agree it should be reissued and I’d love to do a tour in support of Buckingham Nicks. I don’t think there’s going to be enough time this year for a tour, but I’d be open to doing some songs with Fleetwood Mac on the upcoming tour” was all he needed to say.

Ironically, Mick would have been on board with doing Buckingham Nicks songs.

Oh okay so when you wrote “The first [Lindsey quote] also shows why Stevie wasn’t going to let him do solo shows on the days off.”, that’s because he had a condescending tone?

I really don’t think Stevie even read those interviews for the 2013 Tour.

I know Mick mentioned doing Crystal on the 2013 Tour. I wish they had as well as Blue Letter.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

Oh okay so when you wrote “The first [Lindsey quote] also shows why Stevie wasn’t going to let him do solo shows on the days off.”, that’s because he had a condescending tone?

I really don’t think Stevie even read those interviews for the 2013 Tour.

You know her people read the interviews, right? Furthermore, it was a joint interview, so they were especially paying attention if only to make sure what Stevie said was accurately portrayed, but also to see Lindsey’s replies to what she said.

Absolutely the detail into why it wouldn’t be possible and the overall condescending tone came back to bite him in the ass.

[elle]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

The thing about Lindsey doing shows in 2018 on off days that perhaps make it different than doing them in 2012 is that Heywood and Tuggle are already on the road with FM. I guess it would have come down to the drummer Jimmy Paxson because he wasn't on the FM Tour. Maybe they would be worried Lindsey's voice would be worse off for doing solo shows on the days off.

if you recall, nobody was worried about anything regarding Lindsey's shows in between FM tour dates. you know, the way Pretenders did shows in between their double billing tour dates with Stevie and that was never a problem. and he never even brought it up to Stevie. Stevie + managers decided to find the reason to get him out before that.

plus Steve here it trying really hard for years now to convince us it was actually Azoff who decided to get Lindsey out because Lindsey hurt his feelings.

I'm actually still amazed that there was no lawsuits about Azoff's breach of contract with Lindsey. guess my world views are too idealistic and Lindsey must have decided it was not worth it to fight one of the biggest and most powerful bullies in music industry that Azoff still was at that time, and instead just get the truth out and his tour money out of the band instead.