Break Down of Kiln House

[snoot]

Originally Posted by doodyhead

I thought at the time (just from listening to the madge sessions on then play on that they were a better 1- 2 punch than the allman/betts or garcia/ratdog, bloomfield/bishop, Quicksilver, savoy Brown,or the two from moby grape.

Some still don't get the full impact of just how good a team they were, particularly on the DK side of the equation. Or is it that too many get led by the chain of all those smarter than thou critics?

Ah and I overlooked your brooklyn lad from earlier, Pappalardi's boy, Leslie West! Mississippi Queen still sees radio time even out west.

Originally Posted by stubbie7

For my money, the best song on the album is TMATTYD. Danny's riff is just captivating. I think my favorite Jeremy song is Blood on the Floor. By the time I was listening to this album I was into Poco and Pure Prairie League (and many other "hippie/country" bands) so I actually began to appreciate this song as a well written tongue-in-cheek country and western bit of satire. I think it is a great song.

In the back of my mind I still often think of it as little more than a filler piece (from early impressions), and that tends to stick for some odd reason. But every time I sit down and give it a listen, damn if I don't rediscover what a crafty knock off it is, sung to full effect.

I think what turned me off initially was the Buddy Hollyness of it and now I even get that.

A little Holly, Elvis, Perkins, Lewis, Haley and Owens all rolled up into one! Call it a revisit (and nod) to rockabilly.

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by snoot

A little Holly, Elvis, Perkins, Lewis, Haley and Owens all rolled up into one! Call it a revisit (and nod) to rockabilly.

I'm really surprised that Fleetwood Mac didn't capitalize on some of that Jeremy Spencer rockabilly stuff when Billy Burnette was in the band...that would've been right up his alley.

With Rick Vito & Billy Burnette, they were very close to ressurrecting the Green/Spencer combo. I think that's what appealed to me about that '87-90 lineup; they pretty much could cover the entire Fleetwood Mac history, but, for some reason that escapes me they never really took advantage of that (they did on the "Green" side with Vito, but not the "Spencer" side with Burnette).

[snoot]

Originally Posted by chiliD

I'm really surprised that Fleetwood Mac didn't capitalize on some of that Jeremy Spencer rockabilly stuff when Billy Burnette was in the band...that would've been right up his alley.)

You bring up a great point. That would have been right down his pike indeed. After seeing what Burnette does for JC Fogerty on the touring scene, I couldn't agree more. Shame Fogerty didn't let Billy do even more! [But Fogerty is definitely alpha male, and hard to top on either the stage or in the studio]

With Rick Vito & Billy Burnette, they were very close to ressurrecting the Green/Spencer combo. I think that's what appealed to me about that '87-90 lineup; they pretty much could cover the entire Fleetwood Mac history, but, for some reason that escapes me they never really took advantage of that (they did on the "Green" side with Vito, but not the "Spencer" side with Burnette).

Lost in the Mac's ongoing identity shuffle, trying to cover the Buckingham deficit, while attempting to find a footing and platform all their own. Both are first class guitarists, that goes without saying. I think the only reason they're dismissed as lightly as they are in the larger Mac equation is that they surfaced in the shadow of Lindsey, and all that fame and glory that came before. They weren't really prolific songwriters either, especially Vito, so that didn't help. But I think you're onto something with the Green/Spencer combo revisit, as rockabilly is always cool, especially when graced with a more modern, updated twist.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by snoot

They weren't really prolific songwriters either, especially Vito, so that didn't help.

Actually, both were prolific writers. They had good songs that were left off the album because band decided to focus on Christine and Stevie. Billy has had his songs recorded by Ray Charles and Levon Helm, and Rick had a song recorded by McGuinn-Clark-Hillman.

Their careers should definitely NOT be judged by their time in Fleetwood Mac.

[snoot]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Actually, both were prolific writers. They had good songs that were left off the album because band decided to focus on Christine and Stevie.

Remember what I mentioned before: Lost in the Mac's ongoing identity shuffle, trying to cover the Buckingham deficit, while attempting to find a footing and platform all their own. Shame they were circumvented in that way, with the focus targeted more on maintaining the status quo.

Beyond Lindsey's long shadow, I don't think it helped coming aboard in the wake of Tango of all things. Wonder if they knew or fully appreciated what they were getting into, especially Rick? As for stepping up, I'm curious what your opinion is of Behind The Mask, and more importantly, their specific contributions. Sad to say, but by that point the Mac had largely lost me, so I may not be the best judge.

Their careers should definitely NOT be judged by their time in Fleetwood Mac.

True. Fortunately both are held in the highest regards in music circles, even if they were somewhat lost in the shuffle during their tenures with the band. Membership in FM is still a good citation to have on your "resume" though, even if it comes late (Dave Mason notwithstanding?).

[slipkid]

Originally Posted by snoot

Remember what I mentioned before: Lost in the Mac's ongoing identity shuffle, trying to cover the Buckingham deficit, while attempting to find a footing and platform all their own. Shame they were circumvented in that way, with the focus targeted more on maintaining the status quo.

Beyond Lindsey's long shadow, I don't think it helped coming aboard in the wake of Tango of all things. Wonder if they knew or fully appreciated what they were getting into, especially Rick? As for stepping up, I'm curious what your opinion is of Behind The Mask, and more importantly, their specific contributions. Sad to say, but by that point the Mac had largely lost me, so I may not be the best judge.

Their careers should definitely NOT be judged by their time in Fleetwood Mac.

True. Fortunately both are held in the highest regards in music circles, even if they were somewhat lost in the shuffle during their tenures with the band. Membership in FM is still a good citation to have on your "resume" though, even if it comes late (Dave Mason notwithstanding?).

Rick Vito from Philadelphia (Phillies WS champs!), saw FM with Peter Green in late '68 in their one time stop for two nights at the Electric Factory. Vito was worthy of the throne when he was hired after LB's leave. (he is around Kirwan's age BTW) Billy Burnette's addition was a little weird to me at the time. Unless Mick wanted to bring back the Green/Spencer or Kirwan vibe, yet Burnette didn't take??? You don't need two guitarists to replace Buckingham. Who knows what was going on, at this point the band was in pop oblivion.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by snoot

As for stepping up, I'm curious what your opinion is of Behind The Mask, and more importantly, their specific contributions. Sad to say, but by that point the Mac had largely lost me, so I may not be the best judge.

Well, my favorites from that album are In The Back Of My Mind, When The Sun Goes Down, and Do You Know, and I think Rick Vito's solo on Save Me may be the best post-Green solo on Mac album.

Originally Posted by slipkid

Vito was worthy of the throne when he was hired after LB's leave. (he is around Kirwan's age BTW) Billy Burnette's addition was a little weird to me at the time. Unless Mick wanted to bring back the Green/Spencer or Kirwan vibe, yet Burnette didn't take??? You don't need two guitarists to replace Buckingham. Who knows what was going on, at this point the band was in pop oblivion.

Billy was an obvious choice because he knew the others pretty well. Actually, Billy was going to be on the Tango tour even if Lindsey had stayed. He had played in Mick's band, Christine's band, and recorded an unreleased song with Stevie Nicks. Hell, he even backed Lindsey on Saturday Night Live! Also, from a distance, they do somewhat resemble each other. I doubt it was coincide that Billy played a white Les Paul Custom on that tour or that he wore the same type of jacket and black button-down that had become Lindsey's signature.

[snoot]

Originally Posted by slipkid

Rick Vito from Philadelphia (Phillies WS champs!), saw FM with Peter Green in late '68 in their one time stop for two nights at the Electric Factory. Vito was worthy of the throne when he was hired after LB's leave. (he is around Kirwan's age BTW) Billy Burnette's addition was a little weird to me at the time. Unless Mick wanted to bring back the Green/Spencer or Kirwan vibe, yet Burnette didn't take??? You don't need two guitarists to replace Buckingham. Who knows what was going on, at this point the band was in pop oblivion.

After all the time he spent in the company of folks like Mayall, Browne, Prine and Silverbullet (Seger), plus doing sessions work for damn near half the industry, it was hard for me to think of Vito as anything but a hired gun (ergo, temp) for FM. To my knowledge, he hadn't released a thing of his own prior to his time with Mac. Considering how busy he was contributing to the projects of others, this should come as no surprise. Burnette as we know descends from a well-known family of musicians, but those early solo efforts of his weren't exactly ground-breaking. Therefore I figured he and Rick, in a two-heads-are-better-than-one scheme, were choosing to collaborate to help shift the musical direction of the band but once again, with an approving nod from the existing players.

Unfortunately FM as a collective wasn't really looking to start fresh or anew, but instead continue with the same successful (aka "commercially safe") formula. Silly me, having hopes that this promising new tandem might create a marked shift in the direction of the past (appropriately modernized), by bringing the multi axe attack once again to the fore. After all, what did they stand to lose after Tango? But after giving Behind The Mask a run-through early on, I could see this wasn't the case, and never really fleshed it out further. Perhaps I didn't give it its full due, but that project - with all its hope - didn't exactly leap out at me (not fully its fault either, nothing FM was grabbing my attention by that point). Fact was, I was disappointed with what >> could have been <<.

Who knows what was going on, at this point the band was in pop oblivion.

Sad to say, that was (is) my general take too. Not solely from the BTM release mind you, but as a continuance of things going back as far as Tusk really. Spottier hit and miss productions, with an ever widening plunge toward pop goes the weasel. Tusk would have been a tighter production if it had been condensed to a single album imo, even with all those little gems found on it. Would have made for a more impactful and consistent follow-up to FM '75 and Rumours that way. As great a guitarist as Lindsey is, at times I think he could have broadened the FM sound more by bringing in a second gun for accents and additional counterpoint, especially as time went on. But if commercial sales are any gauge, that was far from needed -- plus he IS a magnificent axemeister as a solo hand, that's a given.

Could it be a case of Stevie overload at that point? Or just SOS POP FM in general?

Alas, I'm such a dinasour from the days of yore that I still long for that special instrumental offering(s) we used to get with nearly every FM project of the past. As noted earlier, not -ONE- since Buckingham took the helm AFAIK! Yikes.

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Well, my favorites from that album are In The Back Of My Mind, When The Sun Goes Down, and Do You Know, and I think Rick Vito's solo on Save Me may be the best post-Green solo on Mac album.

Now I know it's hard to draw an exact line between banality and genius when we're speaking of pop music (Vinnie take note), but I might have to give this a second look. I'll tab your notes when I do.

Billy was an obvious choice because he knew the others pretty well.

Maybe because he was also more malleable, you know, more of a no make waves team player?

What we needed was a Forgetaboutit Stevie! Pipe down Christy! STFU Mick! in your face change of direction at that point. Not more of this "Will you have some crumpets with your tea, Stevie? Oh, and how 'bout you Mick? Christy, my love?" Pfffft. Ha ha ha yeah, and pink elephants will fly.

TAKE BACK THE MAC! That's what we fossils from the past were shouting. [blush]

Actually, Billy was going to be on the Tango tour even if Lindsey had stayed.

Where did you hear that? Lindsey to spearhead a dual axe attack? Proof or FAIL.