Mck: FM finishing new album, SN likely not involved

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by jkmaletic

That's likely just one of MANY such instances.

My comment was arch (hence the second paragraph). I'm sure her resistance to working with LB stems from much more than this.

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

She still can't forgive him for lecturing her on rules of "good writing" when he was picking apart her lyrics to "Throw Down" in the Destiny Rules doc.

I mean, would he tell such things to Bob Dylan? Holy blonde-on-blonde vs. sable-on-blonde batman, he would not...

He was right. It didn't make a lick of sense after she changed the lyrics. The lyrics are embarrassingly bad.

[bwboy]

No, Lindsey wouldn't have suggested Dylan change the lyrics. Since when does producing a song give the producer the right to say the songwriter should change the lyrics, anyway?

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by bwboy

No, Lindsey wouldn't have suggested Dylan change the lyrics. Since when does producing a song give the producer the right to say the songwriter should change the lyrics, anyway?

That's his job You have to let the artist know what you think of it. The sound, the lyric, the arrangment. A producer's job is to get the best out of the artist. All of it.

[elle]

Originally Posted by bwboy

No, Lindsey wouldn't have suggested Dylan change the lyrics. Since when does producing a song give the producer the right to say the songwriter should change the lyrics, anyway?

since it's usually a collaboration. instead of some weird power play.

constructive suggestions are a good thing. and, not everyone demands everybody around them constantly walks on eggs, kisses their behind, and agrees with everything they do.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

That's his job You have to let the artist know what you think of it. The sound, the lyric, the arrangment. A producer's job is to get the best out of the artist. All of it.

I don't know if a producer should concern himself with pronouns, but the point is you say something, the other person says go stuff it and that's the end of it. You don't need to talk about it for 10 years straight and include an intense discussion about it in your IYD movie, years after it happened.

Stevie always has critical things to say about Lindsey and he just ignores her. I mean, Lindsey has his moments. He has never gotten over John and Mick asking him to use a pick, which he did for a minute or two, but apparently it scarred him for life. Talk to him for an hour today and he'll probably bring it up again.

But that's his problem. It's not an example of John and Mick abuse by any means. If his Thrown Down critique is an example of his being overbearing towards Stevie in the studio, that's just proof that Stevie has been Ayatollah complaining about absolutely nothing all of these years. She should be able to come up with a better example than that of his controlling, unreasonable ways. If there are other examples of his abuse, why doesn't she give them. The fact that she had to use that very old one in her movie kind of tells me that's all she could think of.

Michele

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I don't know if a producer should concern himself with pronouns, but the point is you say something, the other person says go stuff it and that's the end of it. You don't need to talk about it for 10 years straight and include an intense discussion about it in your IYD movie, years after it happened.

Stevie always has critical things to say about Lindsey and he just ignores her. I mean, Lindsey has his moments. He has never gotten over John and Mick asking him to use a pick, which he did for a minute or two, but apparently it scarred him for life. Talk to him for an hour today and he'll probably bring it up again.

But that's his problem. It's not an example of John and Mick abuse by any means. If his Thrown Down critique is an example of his being overbearing towards Stevie in the studio, that's just proof that Stevie has been Ayatollah complaining about absolutely nothing all of these years. She should be able to come up with a better example than that of his controlling, unreasonable ways. If there are other examples of his abuse, why doesn't she give them. The fact that she had to use that very old one in her movie kind of tells me that's all she could think of.

It probably stung a little more because it was kind of love song she wrote for him and his first response was to criticize it. That had to sting. However, at some point, she needs to get over it.

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by bwboy

No, Lindsey wouldn't have suggested Dylan change the lyrics.

Actually, if Dylan wrote those lyrics and was a member of Fleetwood Mac, he would have.

[bwboy]

You're right.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

It probably stung a little more because it was kind of love song she wrote for him and his first response was to criticize it. That had to sting. However, at some point, she needs to get over it.

If I remember correctly, he was just doing his job as a producer. And she said, (paraphrasing) "well you wouldn't tell Bob Dylan that." And he said something along the lines of, this isn't an abstract piece like Bob Dylan writes. It's more of a literal type of lyric and I wanted to point it out. I think it's a producer's job to say something. As much as saying, "hey you are flat on this note.. measure 18 beat 3.. "

I think he dropped it pretty quickly.

[Phil]

It amuses me that "Thrown Down" is often referenced for grammatically incorrect lyrics during the SYW sessions when the most obvious blunder would have to be "I should have turned around and ran" from "Smile At You". As much as I love this song, particularly the newly-surfaced version on Mirage Deluxe, employing the wrong tense just to get an easy rhyme seems lazy and stupid.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by Phil

It amuses me that "Thrown Down" is often referenced for grammatically incorrect lyrics during the SYW sessions when the most obvious blunder would have to be "I should have turned around and ran" from "Smile At You". As much as I love this song, particularly the newly-surfaced version on Mirage Deluxe, employing the wrong tense just to get an easy rhyme seems lazy and stupid.

Maybe it's not FOR YOU AND I to say.

but, for me... I agree...

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by BlueDenimLamp

It's as simple as this...It was Stevie's song recorded in Stevie's house (literally) so if at any time she wanted him gone all she had to do was say the word and bye-bye Lindsey...Now if he were to work with Stevie the same way within the frame work of FM great things could happen but as we all know "Overdub" always has to have Stevie's song HIS way and that's the problem...

Agreed, she likes his talent and what he brings to her songs but not EVERY thing he does with them, so when it's her solo stuff she can keep what she likes and change what she doesn't of his contribution.

And that's the key word: she likes when he CONTRIBUTES to her songs, not when he CONTROLS her songs.

I agree the Thrown Down bit was overplayed by her, but again, and it always astonishes me when people forget this-- any of the "documentaries" of them making albums aren't really that REAL folks. They KNOW they are being filmed and they modulate their behavior. Are they going to have those "eff you" screaming fights Ken wrote about with cameras rolling? Uh, no. And if they somehow did, you bet your booty those bits would get edited out. I mean, if you watch the Tusk doc you'd think it was peachy all the time. Well, for one, we never saw anything about Lindsey recording at home or coming in and playing something saying "i recorded this at home" they touched on it but watching it you're left with the impression it was really mostly all done in the studio. You see no fights. Stevie has talked about, and Hernan Rojas who engineered on it has said, that the Tusk sessions could get really bad with both her and Lindsey and her and Mick. You get a wee taste of that in the clip where she's behind Lindsey at the controls in the studio and he kinda rides over her comment about the Mills Brothers and she makes the crazy sign with her hand. But that's hearts and roses compared to what really went on that they and their marketing people didn't put in the final cut.

So I believe her when she says he was a real turd to her in the studio over many years. He seems to have stepped back from a lot of that and acknowledged it, saying on SYW he wanted her to feel comfortable with him in the studio. But she's not having it. Lindsey always likes to talk about "burning bridges" and maybe he burned that bridge so badly in the past it's just too late to rebuild it.

[SteveMacD]

I think Lindsey gets a bum rap for SYW. From the outset, it was going to be a solo album. Even though he was playing with Mick, John, and Chris, it was HIS album, not a democratic band project.

So when it was decided to turn it into a Fleetwood Mac album, Lindsey had the task of creating something cohesive with what he had intended for his solo album over a number of years, and all the quirks that come with that, and Stevie's material. In hindsight, maybe he was too invested to be objective with her material.

[johnnystorms]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

Yes, but if she hated what he did with her music, and if working with him in the studio was so grievous, why would she chose to include him in the refuge that is her solo career?

Because it's all a press/media circus front. Even in the supposed deepest , worst estrangement, she brought him in to do Twisted as a duet! ALL of this media coyness is just to milk the passions of the fan-base. If she were done with FM, she'd say "I'm finished with Fleetwood Mac" . Imagine the press she'd get from that dramatic announcement.