Neil Finn on Fleetwood Mac internal politics

[The Catdancer]

Originally Posted by anusha

Once 1) Mike Campbell needed a job and 2) Irving had proven that the Eagles could tour without Glen, anything less than worship of Stevie would have been a fireable offense to Stevie and Irving as far as Lindsey was concerned.

That’s what made the initial PR spin FM did around the firing so absurd and gross. It was always obvious that Stevie demanded that Lindsey be fired or she wouldn’t tour. She just didn’t want to look bad, and when she did get backlash, her groupies like Vanessa Carlton took to twitter to badmouth Lindsey.

And Stevie is the queen of unreasonable tour demands. Separate jets and grand pianos and pink painted suites. Bringing her background singers everywhere. Playing the same set lists. Interminable costume, no make that shawl, changes. Forcing the others to wait for her to finish solo stuff all the time. And I’m sure by the end at least double the share of the tour income of any other member of the band. She just had the power to get away with it and Lindsey didn’t. While we didn’t need proof of all of this, Neil clearly saw this dynamic first hand from how he described the band.

And don't forget she's bringing her own furniture with her...

[The Catdancer]

Originally Posted by secret love

They did play Bleed to Love Her at the Australia and New Zealand shows. Along with Sara and Think About Me, which they didn’t play in the North America shows so I believe.

Angel is still possible, if Stevie wants to do something actually different and interesting with her solo setlists for the European tour.

I don't think it is actually. She'd never be able to hit those high notes ever again. And without the high notes, it doesn't sound right to me. Just like Sisters, I cringed every time I heard it. We'll never get another Mirage tour Sisters or a Tusk tour Angel simply because she can't do it anymore.

[secret love]

Originally Posted by The Catdancer

I don't think it is actually. She'd never be able to hit those high notes ever again. And without the high notes, it doesn't sound right to me. Just like Sisters, I cringed every time I heard it. We'll never get another Mirage tour Sisters or a Tusk tour Angel simply because she can't do it anymore.

Hm, I think she pulled off Wild Heart and Bella Donna live, I don’t see why she couldn’t do Angel. She’s already singing so many of her other songs in different keys to the original recordings, I think with the right treatment, Angel could work. That said I am sure there are many people on here who don’t think Stevie should be singing at all anymore.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

How so? LindseyÂ’s comments about a Buckingham Nicks reunion tour being impossible between legs and Stevie not focusing on new material to Rolling Stone in December, 2012, calling IrvingÂ’s baby a cash grab that didnÂ’t speak to the bandÂ’s aspirations, and being difficult during tour negotiations were probably, in their minds, fireable offenses that were entirely all on Lindsey. ItÂ’s all about perspective.

I get The Classic festival point, difficult in tour negotiations - which I guess means he wanted to do shows on off days, and that Stevie didn't want to make a new album - which he said in 2008 as well.

I don't get the opinion that the Buckingham Nicks Reunion Tour was a hand on the axe that struck him in 2018.

First thing is the 2013 Tour was the most lovefest Stevie and Lindsey FM tour ever. She was dedicating songs to him. She cried real tears when he dedicated Say Goodbye to her. She didn't seem mad at him at all that tour. Tons of smiling.

Second, Stevie talks out of her behind a lot. Examples include the Rhiannon film and now it's a mini-series, a multi-hour concert where she would play songs from every single album from Bella Donna to In Your Dreams (24KG wasn't released when she promised this), a second 24KG album and a tour where she would perform songs she didn't perform from IYD and 24KG on their respective tours, "I don't take vacation after making an album or going on tour" etc.

Third, FM's 2013 North America Tour started April 4 and stopped July 6. The Europe Tour went from September 24 to October 26. I am not sure how many days of rehearsals they had with Christine. We know from Mick's second book that they played a few songs with her but decided they would only do Don't Stop with her. And the plan was to tour Australia and New Zealand in November in December I think. So there could not have been a BN Tour booked for November or December since Stevie always says they get to Australia like a month before the tour starts to adjust to the time change.

It's a fact that Stevie needs rest between legs. Remember how she told Christine to get a trainer because the shows are grueling. Lindsey did mention he wanted to go on vacation with his family in July of 2013 too. Let's just say they didn't need rest. When would there have been time for Buckingham Nicks to rehearse? I think FM rehearsed from March 1 until April.

Lindsey also mentioned that playing in between legs would probably not give them enough time to play a number of shows to make a profit. That doesn't sound like an unintelligible statement by Lindsey but I'm open to understanding if it is.

The thing about Lindsey doing shows in 2018 on off days that perhaps make it different than doing them in 2012 is that Heywood and Tuggle are already on the road with FM. I guess it would have come down to the drummer Jimmy Paxson because he wasn't on the FM Tour. Maybe they would be worried Lindsey's voice would be worse off for doing solo shows on the days off.

Addition to OP: Taku could have played in Lindsey's solo band since he did on the Under The Skin Tour. Maybe even Steve Rinkohv. Mick did an interview for Unleashed where he said he was considering whether or not to bring a percussionist on tour. I guess Lindsey told Mick they could save money by having Steve do percussion. Steve also did his usual behind the scenes drumming on the Say You Will Tour too. It's quite interesting. I'd love for someone to show me a Fleetwood Mac video from 2003 to MusiCares that I can hear a prerecorded track, percussion, or music other than the fake horns in Tusk!

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

I get The Classic festival point, difficult in tour negotiations - which I guess means he wanted to do shows on off days, and that Stevie didn't want to make a new album - which he said in 2008 as well.

I don't get the opinion that the Buckingham Nicks Reunion Tour was a hand on the axe that struck him in 2018.

I wasn’t suggesting Lindsey was wrong about the logistics of doing a Buckingham Nicks tour. That wasn’t the point.

It was the condescending tone and going unnecessarily long and being unnecessarily thorough as to why it wouldn’t be possible AND the way he brought up Stevie’s lack of new music that were the problem. I’m sure some of those comments came back to haunt him.

Seriously, “I agree it should be reissued and I’d love to do a tour in support of Buckingham Nicks. I don’t think there’s going to be enough time this year for a tour, but I’d be open to doing some songs with Fleetwood Mac on the upcoming tour” was all he needed to say.

Ironically, Mick would have been on board with doing Buckingham Nicks songs.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I wasn’t suggesting Lindsey was wrong about the logistics of doing a Buckingham Nicks tour. That wasn’t the point.

It was the condescending tone and going unnecessarily long and being unnecessarily thorough as to why it wouldn’t be possible AND the way he brought up Stevie’s lack of new music that were the problem. I’m sure some of those comments came back to haunt him.

Seriously, “I agree it should be reissued and I’d love to do a tour in support of Buckingham Nicks. I don’t think there’s going to be enough time this year for a tour, but I’d be open to doing some songs with Fleetwood Mac on the upcoming tour” was all he needed to say.

Ironically, Mick would have been on board with doing Buckingham Nicks songs.

Oh okay so when you wrote “The first [Lindsey quote] also shows why Stevie wasn’t going to let him do solo shows on the days off.”, that’s because he had a condescending tone?

I really don’t think Stevie even read those interviews for the 2013 Tour.

I know Mick mentioned doing Crystal on the 2013 Tour. I wish they had as well as Blue Letter.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

Oh okay so when you wrote “The first [Lindsey quote] also shows why Stevie wasn’t going to let him do solo shows on the days off.”, that’s because he had a condescending tone?

I really don’t think Stevie even read those interviews for the 2013 Tour.

You know her people read the interviews, right? Furthermore, it was a joint interview, so they were especially paying attention if only to make sure what Stevie said was accurately portrayed, but also to see Lindsey’s replies to what she said.

Absolutely the detail into why it wouldn’t be possible and the overall condescending tone came back to bite him in the ass.

[elle]

Originally Posted by UnwindedDreams

The thing about Lindsey doing shows in 2018 on off days that perhaps make it different than doing them in 2012 is that Heywood and Tuggle are already on the road with FM. I guess it would have come down to the drummer Jimmy Paxson because he wasn't on the FM Tour. Maybe they would be worried Lindsey's voice would be worse off for doing solo shows on the days off.

if you recall, nobody was worried about anything regarding Lindsey's shows in between FM tour dates. you know, the way Pretenders did shows in between their double billing tour dates with Stevie and that was never a problem. and he never even brought it up to Stevie. Stevie + managers decided to find the reason to get him out before that.

plus Steve here it trying really hard for years now to convince us it was actually Azoff who decided to get Lindsey out because Lindsey hurt his feelings.

I'm actually still amazed that there was no lawsuits about Azoff's breach of contract with Lindsey. guess my world views are too idealistic and Lindsey must have decided it was not worth it to fight one of the biggest and most powerful bullies in music industry that Azoff still was at that time, and instead just get the truth out and his tour money out of the band instead.

[elle]

Originally Posted by elle

plus Steve here it trying really hard for years now to convince us it was actually Azoff who decided to get Lindsey out because Lindsey hurt his feelings.

*is trying really hard.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by elle

you know, the way Pretenders did shows in between their double billing tour dates with Stevie and that was never a problem.

Because The Pretenders are in Stevie’s band

plus Steve here it trying really hard for years now to convince us it was actually Azoff who decided to get Lindsey out because Lindsey hurt his feelings.

Lindsey crapped all over something Irving had tens of millions invested in. That’s not a matter of hurt feelings. People get taken out in mob movies for less.

[BigAl84]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Because The Pretenders are in Stevie’s band



Lindsey crapped all over something Irving had tens of millions invested in. That’s not a matter of hurt feelings. People get taken out in mob movies for less.

Yeah but Lindsey showed up and did the gig, everyone got their check. I’m not convinced some remark about doing it for the cash was exactly earth shattering to anyone.

[sue]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

Oh...I agree with you there, she's a major grudge holder!

she holds grudges because when not touring…she has nothing else.
She lets stuff fester in her brain.

The Lindsey sacking was a long time coming..
Well at least since BuckVie..

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

Yeah but Lindsey showed up and did the gig, everyone got their check. I’m not convinced some remark about doing it for the cash was exactly earth shattering to anyone.

I mean, I cringed when I heard Lindsey say it and speculated that the comments played a role in his firing, then it came out Irving dropped him, and, way later, Irving uttered “but in the case of Lindsey Buckingham, I will make an exception” and proceeded to go on a tirade of epic proportion.

You’re naive if you don’t think it played a role.

Irving’s comments weren’t business, they were personal.

[SteveMacD]

One thing about Neil’s comments, I wonder if “At least someone with something going for them is singing my songs” was a subtle dig at Billy Burnette?

[anusha]

I thought it was interesting that Neil told it like it was. Specifically, he clearly said that things in Fleetwood Mac are run according to what Stevie wants. I don’t think anyone else has openly said that within the band. I also think that no one among the fans would really dispute that fact. Maybe Mick and Stevie Didn’t want that kind of impression to get out, but that doesn’t stop it from being true.

As for Lindsey and Irving, I’m sure Irving has found Lindsey to be a pain in the behind for many years. But, Irving tolerated him because there was money to be made. I’m sure Lindsey‘s comments about the classic didn’t make him happy, but the Eagles were pretty open about reuniting as a cash grab and it didn’t make a difference. The difference here is that Stevie did not want Lindsey in the band anymore And it was clear that the band would still be able to sell tickets without Lindsey. That’s the writing on the wall That led to Lindsey’s firing

As for Stevie and the grievances that caused Her to pull the trigger this time, Who knows? MusiCares, BuckVie, Lindsey being rude in the media, probably countless incidents of Lindsey being rude or less than worshipful. Heck, she probably has reasons going all the way back to 1968. And she’s probably justified, because the two of them have a unique ability to be completely nasty to each other in public and in private. I do believe that Lindsey was right and suing over being fired from the tour, but after he settled, the interviews he gave were so smug and rude. I can’t understand what delusion makes him think that they would want to reunite after something like that.

Let’s hope they stay far away from each other