Then Play On revisited

[becca]

I just got this on CD today but we had the album around when I was young. I think it sounded better on vinyl, had a fuller sound and bass, just can't get full bass on CDs usually, but the vinyl is pretty worn now and the jacket has that kind of musty old cardboard smell. Oh Well.

On CD I like My Dream and Like Crying by Kirwan best. Maybe it is because on CD he sounds better hitting the higher notes, maybe it needs that crackle-less antispetic laser beam to make sense, I really don't remember his stuff from the LP. Slippery smooth while Peter Green was more rangey and punchy.

Well am glad I got this on CD, am curious how others rate the tracks now. I think the Oh Wells were better sounding on the winyl record, plus there were two of them and here they are mixed together.

[chiliD]

I'm intrigued by your comment about two "Oh Well"s...

Every version of "Then Play On" (that has included it, that is) I've seen has ALWAYS had both parts of "Oh Well" blended together.

"My Dream" was on the original US version (no "Oh Well") of TPO (as was "When You Say") Both songs were dropped in favor of "Oh Well" on subsequent pressings.

In the UK, the original pressing of TPO included Danny's "Without You" & "One Sunny Day" which were the ones dropped for "Oh Well"...since those were included in the US on the "English Rose" album, "My Dream" & "When You Say" were used here instead.

The only thing that put a damper on "Then Play On", for me, was when they released the "Vaudeville Years" sets...getting the full 16+ minute version of "Underway" (which they only used the first 2-1/2 or so minutes of); the entire 18+ minute "Madge" jam, that they cut & pasted into "Searching for..." & "Fighting for...". And, also including "When You Say" on the TPO CD...not real fond of that one, at ALL. That said, I still listen to TPO more than any other Mac album...still holds up after all these years.

One of the things that surprised me about "Then Play On" in subsequent years...1) a lot of the solos I attributed to Peter Green were actually Danny Kirwan. For example, all the solos on "Oh Well" are Danny; Peter just plays the opening riff and all of Part 2 (the classical part); and the aggressive solos on the two "Madges" are Danny; Peter plays the subdued riffs...and, B) even though it's considered "Oh Well, Part TWO", it was actually recorded BEFORE "Part ONE".

[LesPaul7]

Originally Posted by chiliD

I'm intrigued by your comment about two "Oh Well"s...
One of the things that surprised me about "Then Play On" in subsequent years...1) a lot of the solos I attributed to Peter Green were actually Danny Kirwan. For example, all the solos on "Oh Well" are Danny; Peter just plays the opening riff and all of Part 2 (the classical part); and the aggressive solos on the two "Madges" are Danny; Peter plays the subdued riffs...and, B) even though it's considered "Oh Well, Part TWO", it was actually recorded BEFORE "Part ONE".

You're right Kirwan does the solos on Oh Well while Green plays the rhythm underneath. You are definitely wrong about the Madge jams though. Green plays the flowing, endless solos and Kirwan plays the staccato lines. All you have to do is listen to the Boston Rattlesnake Shake medley (in stereo) to know this, even if you can't tell by their phrasing. Or better yet watch the video of them jamming it on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0SglPDyhZU

Yeah, I know this is an OLD thread, but I am always seeing people attribute Green's solos to Kirwan.

[becca]

Thanks for helping straighten that out, I've spent a long time with the roles transposed on these cuts it seems! Also I think we had a slightly different Then Play On in Canada than released elsewhere, I've found this to be the case with Yardbirds albums, and Canadian Epic and Capitol LPs in general, but also a lot of my Dad's records were radio station promos. Sometimes the cover graphics are very different too.

[macfan 57]

I only have Then Play On on CD, so I can't compare it to the vinyl. I like this album alot, especially Coming Your Way, Closing My Eyes, Like Crying & Before the Beginning. I was a little bit surprised that I liked it since I don't really care for the first 2 Fleetwood Mac albums. It doesn't appear that Jeremy Spencer is on this album. If he's not on the album, does anyone know why he is pictured in the CD booklet? Also, in the liner notes it mentions that Christine was involved in the recording sessions for this album. I can't hear her anywhere. Does anyone know if she played on any of these songs?

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by macfan 57

It doesn't appear that Jeremy Spencer is on this album. If he's not on the album, does anyone know why he is pictured in the CD booklet? Also, in the liner notes it mentions that Christine was involved in the recording sessions for this album. I can't hear her anywhere. Does anyone know if she played on any of these songs?

I have wondered this myself. She says she sang some vocal harmonies on it, but outside of When You Say (the album's only weak song) I can't imagine where those harmonies would be. I do hear a piano at the end of Coming Your Way which DOES sound like Christine's tasteful, subdued playing, but it might be Jeremy.

[wetcamelfood]

Oh Jeremy, wherefore art thou...

In any case, it doesn't surprise me that Jeremy is pictured in TPO as those kinds of pictures don't necessarily mean there are playing on it. Like when they lip synch on TV shows and music videos, those don't always measure up either. Hopefully ChilliD can back this up with a list of such other relasses? (Chilli - wherefore art thou?)

Jeremy did confirm here that he did play the piano on Oh Well Part 2 (though many would not consider this a TPO song since it originally was released as a single only and not on the original copies though WYS & MD were booted off the vinyl TPO's in the 1977
reissues (though not the cassettes).

In any case, hopefully Jeremy can clear this up for us here as I've always been curious about it as well.

John

[ash1]

anyone not familiar with the vinyl original could do well to ask Prof Stoned about it.
the current cd sounds dreadful and is not in the original order. WB should have the masters forcibly removed from their vault for such a cheap and shoddy package.
Google is your friend
enjoy

[Mr Scarrott]

Jeremy did say once on the Ledge that he didn't know who played piano on Coming Your Way- Here's the link

http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/ledge/sh...60#post1051360

I've often wondered about that bit of piano as well. I kind of hope it was Christine, in a way. I just can't hear her alleged backing vocals at all on When You Say, which I have to admit I try to avoid listening to! Maybe is they remastered TPO we might get to hear her if they removed all the extraneous noise....


Well, there you go. My first post after about 18 years reading the Ledge. What on earth took me so long?

[aleuzzi]

Thanx for the link, Scarrott. I am laughing because when I read through it I see the person who originally asked the question about it was me! I guess I'm still wondering...

[chiliD]

At the same time that Fleetwood Mac was recording "Then Play On", they were also recording what was SUPPOSED to be the "companion" album to TPO, an album of all of Jeremy's rock & roll parodies, etc. Instead of being released simultaneously to TPO, it was delayed a few months, making it pretty much Jeremy's first solo album, even though it's all Fleetwood Mac (plus Christine Perfect).

Christine sings harmonies on "When You Say". (the "la-la-la"'s)

[becca]

It was Oh Well Parts one and two, on the album they are listed individually. Yeah, didn't know that was Danny so much, interesting, some of it has that Peter Green bite to it I think.

I tried Kiln House again and I guess I can kind of get into Spencer's stuff a bit, if just in a rare mood. This Is The Rock anyway, the rest I am still estranged from i think.

[goweropolis]

chiliD:

One of the things that surprised me about "Then Play On" in subsequent years...1) a lot of the solos I attributed to Peter Green were actually Danny Kirwan. For example, all the solos on "Oh Well" are Danny; Peter just plays the opening riff and all of Part 2 (the classical part); and the aggressive solos on the two "Madges" are Danny; Peter plays the subdued riffs...

Are you sure about this? Is there a source for this comment? I highly doubt that Kirwan would be playing lead guitar on Green's compositions. I know they were collaborative, but Kirwan had plenty of room for his own songs and soloing on TPO. The liner notes to The Vaudeville Years say that for "Underway", Kirwan played the choppy rhythm guitar, while Green played the lead line. I would wager that on Green's songs, they followed this same basic template. I'm not trying to be contradictory, I'm just surprised.

macfan 57:

It doesn't appear that Jeremy Spencer is on this album.

Actually Jeremy plays piano on "Oh Well part 2", and I think somewhere else too, but I don't have the liner notes to The Vaudeville Years in front of me, so I don't know for sure. The FM EP with Spencer's parodies can be found on The Vaudeville Years. A good comp with the aforementioned full versions of "Underway" & "The Madge Sessions", and a killer studio take of "Like It This Way".

If there's ever an album that needed remastering it's TPO. It's one of my fav FM albums. Very unique and different from any of the other albums. It could benefit from some bonus tracks too, of which I'm sure Reprise has (like "The Green Manalishi" b/w "World In Harmony" single for instance. I don't know what Reprise is waiting for.

Anyways, first post too. Good to be here. Cheers,

Andy

[Johnny Stew]

Hello, Andy... welcome to The Ledge.

I'm kind of ashamed, because it was only the other day that I actually remembered that 'The Vaudeville Years' even existed.
I didn't have the cash for it when it was first released, and it eventually slipped from my memory.
From what you've mentioned, it sounds like a must-have.

I also don't have the 2-disc 'Show-biz Blues' yet... I need to set aside some money for these.


Johnny Stew

[chiliD]

Actually Jeremy plays piano on "Oh Well part 2",

I've read conflicting reports on this...some I've read said that Peter Green plays ALL the instruments (excluding full orchestra, that is) on Oh Well, Part 2. That he taught himself to play both recorder & cello so he could accomplish that feat.

Are you sure about this? Is there a source for this comment?

Absolutely, with not a doubt in my mind...the source? My own eyes & ears.

1) watching live (not the studio lipsyncs) versions on video...I was shocked when Danny played the "Oh Well" solos...same guitar tone as on the album.

then,
2) once I got a grasp of Danny's aggressive guitar tone, I could more easily distinguish HIS sound to Peter's...therefore being able to distinguish Danny from Peter on the rest of the album...and on other live recordings as well. Once I knew that the tone of the guitar on the "Oh Well" solos was Danny, the rest came easily.

It could benefit from some bonus tracks too

I'd say, "Bonus DISC"...with the companion Jeremy Spencer album as it was supposed to be.

John "wetcamelfood" Fitzgerald has done some calling to WB/Reprise and they apparently divert any questions regarding updating/remastering of back catalogue to Rhino...John has contacted Rhino, got the runaround from them, too.

I'll re-post (for the umteenth time) my "remaster plan" for the Fleetwood Mac catalogue and see if anyone has any additions that I may have left out...I'll post it as a separate thread in a day or two.