the unsavory truth about songwriting credit

[bombaysaffires]

With reference back to a discussion on an earlier thread about songwriting and credits and royalties, I thought some of you might find this article of interest:

http://www.theguardian.com/music/mus...ts-songwriters

Here's a quote that talks about the type of situation that was being discussed here about Stevie getting credit for changing a word or two in Seven Wonders written by Sandy Stewart-

"It's common for artists to demand songwriting credits on a track – jokingly called "change a word, get a third" by songwriters – sometimes without having anything to do with the writing. An artist once demanded 70% of a song I had worked on, if she decided to record it. As the song was a three-way co-write, that would've left the three of us who actually had written it with 10% each."

Here's another quote from an article about the song Blurred Lines. Robin Thicke demanded credit as writer even though Pharrell Williams wrote it:

"As to why Williams let Thicke take the credit, it's just business as usual according to his testimony:

"This is what happens every day in our industry," said Williams during his own deposition. "You know, people are made to look like they have much more authorship in the situation than they actually do. So that's where the embellishment comes in."

I always wonder, too, just how much of a song was actually written by the superstar who's credited as its writer. Now we know."
http://gawker.com/robin-thicke-was-h...-bl-1634886014

[HoursAndHours]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

With reference back to a discussion on an earlier thread about songwriting and credits and royalties, I thought some of you might find this article of interest:

http://www.theguardian.com/music/mus...ts-songwriters

Here's a quote that talks about the type of situation that was being discussed here about Stevie getting credit for changing a word or two in Seven Wonders written by Sandy Stewart-

"It's common for artists to demand songwriting credits on a track – jokingly called "change a word, get a third" by songwriters – sometimes without having anything to do with the writing. An artist once demanded 70% of a song I had worked on, if she decided to record it. As the song was a three-way co-write, that would've left the three of us who actually had written it with 10% each."

Here's another quote from an article about the song Blurred Lines. Robin Thicke demanded credit as writer even though Pharrell Williams wrote it:

"As to why Williams let Thicke take the credit, it's just business as usual according to his testimony:

"This is what happens every day in our industry," said Williams during his own deposition. "You know, people are made to look like they have much more authorship in the situation than they actually do. So that's where the embellishment comes in."

I always wonder, too, just how much of a song was actually written by the superstar who's credited as its writer. Now we know."
http://gawker.com/robin-thicke-was-h...-bl-1634886014

I need to double check the legality at some point, but I believe you can sell your authorship as well. If you wrote a song, someone else can buy your songwriting credit, if you choose to sell it to them, and then they are the legal songwriter and you are not.

[bombaysaffires]

A lot of the Gawker report is based on this Hollywood Reporter one:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr...g-abuse-732783

Despite having limited input into the creation of "Blurred Lines," Thicke was given a co-writer credit, which he says entitles him to about 18-22 percent of publishing royalties. Why would Williams be so generous?
"This is what happens every day in our industry," said Williams during his own deposition (read in full here). "You know, people are made to look like they have much more authorship in the situation than they actually do. So that's where the embellishment comes in."

[bombaysaffires]

It would appear when she collaborates, Stevie is what is called a "topline writer" -- in cases when someone (like Mike Campbell) sends her a track (like say, FWIW) and she puts the melody and lyrics on it.

"sending out a track to…. topline writers, asking them to come up with melody and lyrics (the topline) for the track."

[Johnny Stew]

I can't speak to whether or not Stevie deserved her writing credit on "Seven Wonders," but I do know there's at least one instance where a songwriter wanted to credit Stevie for changes she made and Stevie declined. Bret Michaels told a Canadian radio station sometime around 2001, that Stevie made quite a few lyrical changes to "Love's A Hard Game To Play." So much so, that Bret wanted to add Stevie as a co-writer -- but she told Bret it was his song and she wanted him (and Pat Schunk) to retain full credit.

So if Stevie did happen to play the "change a word, get a third" card with "Seven Wonders," it doesn't seem to be something she made a habit of. Thankfully.

[Christopher]

This pay for songwriting credit baloney became much more pervasive in the 90s until now. Madonna was/is notorious for it. And so are the likes of Beyonce etc., to get more artistic acclaim, glory & credit, along with additional royalties, than just a performer royalty. They buy the prestige of being regarded as a songwriter, or co-writer. But people in the industry know the dirty truth. This is nothing new.

But, Stevie is not even in the same category with these so-called songwriting interlopers.
Stevie was exceedingly prolific from the early 70s throughout the 80s, painstakingly so! And then again in the mid 90s til SYW. And she is anything but passive about giving co-writing credit where deserved, or when writing over a track.

[bombaysaffires]

Agreed, Stevie is nothing at ALL like the so-called 'artists' out there now. She's very creative, she is prolific, and she can sing. She doesn't hide behind a lot of technology wizardry in the studio or pre recorded tracks live. And the vault songs attest to her output. Nothing here was meant to imply otherwise; there was a lot of talk about credits and royalties in a previous discussion and because of that these articles might be of interest to some.

[StevieNicksfann]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I can't speak to whether or not Stevie deserved her writing credit on "Seven Wonders," but I do know there's at least one instance where a songwriter wanted to credit Stevie for changes she made and Stevie declined. Bret Michaels told a Canadian radio station sometime around 2001, that Stevie made quite a few lyrical changes to "Love's A Hard Game To Play." So much so, that Bret wanted to add Stevie as a co-writer -- but she told Bret it was his song and she wanted him (and Pat Schunk) to retain full credit.

So if Stevie did happen to play the "change a word, get a third" card with "Seven Wonders," it doesn't seem to be something she made a habit of. Thankfully.

Agreed. She also offered Prince co-writing credit for Stand Back and he declined. Although I know in some places, he is indeed listed as co-writer. But the point is, Stevie seems to be quite generous or at least possesses integrity when it comes to taking/giving credit.

[SpyNote]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I can't speak to whether or not Stevie deserved her writing credit on "Seven Wonders," but I do know there's at least one instance where a songwriter wanted to credit Stevie for changes she made and Stevie declined. Bret Michaels told a Canadian radio station sometime around 2001, that Stevie made quite a few lyrical changes to "Love's A Hard Game To Play." So much so, that Bret wanted to add Stevie as a co-writer -- but she told Bret it was his song and she wanted him (and Pat Schunk) to retain full credit.

So if Stevie did happen to play the "change a word, get a third" card with "Seven Wonders," it doesn't seem to be something she made a habit of. Thankfully.

Did Sandy Stewart complain about this? I don't understand why this became such an issue with fans. I mean Stevie made Sandy a millionaire.

[BlueDenimLamp]

Originally Posted by SpyNote

Did Sandy Stewart complain about this? I don't understand why this became such an issue with fans. I mean Stevie made Sandy a millionaire.

Yes she did and her people told her that she could put "Seven Wonders" on her next record or keep quiet and make a LOT of money...

[singertobe]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

With reference back to a discussion on an earlier thread about songwriting and credits and royalties, I thought some of you might find this article of interest:

http://www.theguardian.com/music/mus...ts-songwriters

Here's a quote that talks about the type of situation that was being discussed here about Stevie getting credit for changing a word or two in Seven Wonders written by Sandy Stewart-

"It's common for artists to demand songwriting credits on a track – jokingly called "change a word, get a third" by songwriters – sometimes without having anything to do with the writing. An artist once demanded 70% of a song I had worked on, if she decided to record it. As the song was a three-way co-write, that would've left the three of us who actually had written it with 10% each."

Here's another quote from an article about the song Blurred Lines. Robin Thicke demanded credit as writer even though Pharrell Williams wrote it:

"As to why Williams let Thicke take the credit, it's just business as usual according to his testimony:

"This is what happens every day in our industry," said Williams during his own deposition. "You know, people are made to look like they have much more authorship in the situation than they actually do. So that's where the embellishment comes in."

I always wonder, too, just how much of a song was actually written by the superstar who's credited as its writer. Now we know."
http://gawker.com/robin-thicke-was-h...-bl-1634886014

I might be getting a bit off topic here, but am I the only one who thinks Blurred Lines is one of the most disgusting songs ever?

[gypsyhelena]

Originally Posted by singertobe

I might be getting a bit off topic here, but am I the only one who thinks Blurred Lines is one of the most disgusting songs ever?

Blurred Lines is absolutely foul. The objectifying of women's bodies that goes on in the video, the lyrics that LITERALLY talk about the ~blurred lines~ of consent... And the fact that a song with such awful content could be kept at number one on the charts for long periods of time in multiple countries by people streaming and buying it? Ugh, just thinking about it makes me mad.

[KarmaContestant]

Originally Posted by gypsyhelena

Blurred Lines is absolutely foul. The objectifying of women's bodies that goes on in the video, the lyrics that LITERALLY talk about the ~blurred lines~ of consent... And the fact that a song with such awful content could be kept at number one on the charts for long periods of time in multiple countries by people streaming and buying it? Ugh, just thinking about it makes me mad.

I'm not arguing your point, 'cause I totally get it, but I hear the lyrics differently. To me, the 'blurred lines' were those of relationship boundaries and monogamy. He's singing to a girl who is in a relationship with someone else, yet who is being very flirty with him despite that fact. He thinks her other guy is a schmuck and says 'I'm here to liberate you' He says to her, you're a good girl, but I know you want it (me), even though you have a boyfriend. The lines of fidelity and monogamy are what I interpret as being blurred. Maybe I hear it differently because I am male?

Have you seen the parody with a female group singing about a boy? Hilarious. Even has boys in booty shorts and heels, dancing.

[gypsyhelena]

Originally Posted by KarmaContestant

I'm not arguing your point, 'cause I totally get it, but I hear the lyrics differently. To me, the 'blurred lines' were those of relationship boundaries and monogamy. He's singing to a girl who is in a relationship with someone else, yet who is being very flirty with him despite that fact. He thinks her other guy is a schmuck and says 'I'm here to liberate you' He says to her, you're a good girl, but I know you want it (me), even though you have a boyfriend. The lines of fidelity and monogamy are what I interpret as being blurred. Maybe I hear it differently because I am male?

Have you seen the parody with a female group singing about a boy? Hilarious. Even has boys in booty shorts and heels, dancing.

I see it as being about consent 'cause of lyrics such as the extraordinarily charming 'I'll give you something big enough to tear your ass in two', the many times repeated 'I know you want it', and of course, 'what rhymes with hug me?'. The whole sexual violence and Rohypnol thing sounded really rapey to me; and as a seventeen-year-old girl (so yes, some of our differing views probably are to do with ~age and stage~), I have plenty of young peers who have been coerced into things they aren't at all comfortable with, usually by older guys who give them the whole 'but you're a good girl, and I know you want it' thing. And then there's this post I found a while back, contrasting the song's lyrics to things rape victims were told by their rapists: http://thesocietypages.org/socimages...eal-life-rape/

And I don't think I've seen that particular video, but I've seen a few of guys dancing in heels to Beyoncé and Lady Gaga- oh to have such talent! Compared to them, I'm a toddler in a pair of my mother's shoes!

[SteveMacD]

Bekka Bramlett did that on "Nothing Without You" on the "Time" album. It originally appeared on Delaney Bramlett's "Giving Birth To A Song" album twenty years earlier. She changed the line "'Cause I'm such a lucky man" to "'Cause I hold the winning hand" and got a songwriting credit.

BTW, where a song has two co-writers, the writer of the lyrics/melody usually gets 75%, while the writer who comes up with the chord progression gets 25%. On those songs, the writer of the lyrics/melody usually gets first credit. Of course, there are exceptions, most notably "Yesterday," where John Lennon really had nothing to do with the song.