the unsavory truth about songwriting credit

[bombaysaffires]

With reference back to a discussion on an earlier thread about songwriting and credits and royalties, I thought some of you might find this article of interest:

http://www.theguardian.com/music/mus...ts-songwriters

Here's a quote that talks about the type of situation that was being discussed here about Stevie getting credit for changing a word or two in Seven Wonders written by Sandy Stewart-

"It's common for artists to demand songwriting credits on a track – jokingly called "change a word, get a third" by songwriters – sometimes without having anything to do with the writing. An artist once demanded 70% of a song I had worked on, if she decided to record it. As the song was a three-way co-write, that would've left the three of us who actually had written it with 10% each."

Here's another quote from an article about the song Blurred Lines. Robin Thicke demanded credit as writer even though Pharrell Williams wrote it:

"As to why Williams let Thicke take the credit, it's just business as usual according to his testimony:

"This is what happens every day in our industry," said Williams during his own deposition. "You know, people are made to look like they have much more authorship in the situation than they actually do. So that's where the embellishment comes in."

I always wonder, too, just how much of a song was actually written by the superstar who's credited as its writer. Now we know."
http://gawker.com/robin-thicke-was-h...-bl-1634886014

[HoursAndHours]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

With reference back to a discussion on an earlier thread about songwriting and credits and royalties, I thought some of you might find this article of interest:

http://www.theguardian.com/music/mus...ts-songwriters

Here's a quote that talks about the type of situation that was being discussed here about Stevie getting credit for changing a word or two in Seven Wonders written by Sandy Stewart-

"It's common for artists to demand songwriting credits on a track – jokingly called "change a word, get a third" by songwriters – sometimes without having anything to do with the writing. An artist once demanded 70% of a song I had worked on, if she decided to record it. As the song was a three-way co-write, that would've left the three of us who actually had written it with 10% each."

Here's another quote from an article about the song Blurred Lines. Robin Thicke demanded credit as writer even though Pharrell Williams wrote it:

"As to why Williams let Thicke take the credit, it's just business as usual according to his testimony:

"This is what happens every day in our industry," said Williams during his own deposition. "You know, people are made to look like they have much more authorship in the situation than they actually do. So that's where the embellishment comes in."

I always wonder, too, just how much of a song was actually written by the superstar who's credited as its writer. Now we know."
http://gawker.com/robin-thicke-was-h...-bl-1634886014

I need to double check the legality at some point, but I believe you can sell your authorship as well. If you wrote a song, someone else can buy your songwriting credit, if you choose to sell it to them, and then they are the legal songwriter and you are not.

[bombaysaffires]

A lot of the Gawker report is based on this Hollywood Reporter one:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr...g-abuse-732783

Despite having limited input into the creation of "Blurred Lines," Thicke was given a co-writer credit, which he says entitles him to about 18-22 percent of publishing royalties. Why would Williams be so generous?
"This is what happens every day in our industry," said Williams during his own deposition (read in full here). "You know, people are made to look like they have much more authorship in the situation than they actually do. So that's where the embellishment comes in."

[bombaysaffires]

It would appear when she collaborates, Stevie is what is called a "topline writer" -- in cases when someone (like Mike Campbell) sends her a track (like say, FWIW) and she puts the melody and lyrics on it.

"sending out a track to…. topline writers, asking them to come up with melody and lyrics (the topline) for the track."

[Johnny Stew]

I can't speak to whether or not Stevie deserved her writing credit on "Seven Wonders," but I do know there's at least one instance where a songwriter wanted to credit Stevie for changes she made and Stevie declined. Bret Michaels told a Canadian radio station sometime around 2001, that Stevie made quite a few lyrical changes to "Love's A Hard Game To Play." So much so, that Bret wanted to add Stevie as a co-writer -- but she told Bret it was his song and she wanted him (and Pat Schunk) to retain full credit.

So if Stevie did happen to play the "change a word, get a third" card with "Seven Wonders," it doesn't seem to be something she made a habit of. Thankfully.

[Christopher]

This pay for songwriting credit baloney became much more pervasive in the 90s until now. Madonna was/is notorious for it. And so are the likes of Beyonce etc., to get more artistic acclaim, glory & credit, along with additional royalties, than just a performer royalty. They buy the prestige of being regarded as a songwriter, or co-writer. But people in the industry know the dirty truth. This is nothing new.

But, Stevie is not even in the same category with these so-called songwriting interlopers.
Stevie was exceedingly prolific from the early 70s throughout the 80s, painstakingly so! And then again in the mid 90s til SYW. And she is anything but passive about giving co-writing credit where deserved, or when writing over a track.

[StevieNicksfann]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I can't speak to whether or not Stevie deserved her writing credit on "Seven Wonders," but I do know there's at least one instance where a songwriter wanted to credit Stevie for changes she made and Stevie declined. Bret Michaels told a Canadian radio station sometime around 2001, that Stevie made quite a few lyrical changes to "Love's A Hard Game To Play." So much so, that Bret wanted to add Stevie as a co-writer -- but she told Bret it was his song and she wanted him (and Pat Schunk) to retain full credit.

So if Stevie did happen to play the "change a word, get a third" card with "Seven Wonders," it doesn't seem to be something she made a habit of. Thankfully.

Agreed. She also offered Prince co-writing credit for Stand Back and he declined. Although I know in some places, he is indeed listed as co-writer. But the point is, Stevie seems to be quite generous or at least possesses integrity when it comes to taking/giving credit.

[bombaysaffires]

Agreed, Stevie is nothing at ALL like the so-called 'artists' out there now. She's very creative, she is prolific, and she can sing. She doesn't hide behind a lot of technology wizardry in the studio or pre recorded tracks live. And the vault songs attest to her output. Nothing here was meant to imply otherwise; there was a lot of talk about credits and royalties in a previous discussion and because of that these articles might be of interest to some.

[SpyNote]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I can't speak to whether or not Stevie deserved her writing credit on "Seven Wonders," but I do know there's at least one instance where a songwriter wanted to credit Stevie for changes she made and Stevie declined. Bret Michaels told a Canadian radio station sometime around 2001, that Stevie made quite a few lyrical changes to "Love's A Hard Game To Play." So much so, that Bret wanted to add Stevie as a co-writer -- but she told Bret it was his song and she wanted him (and Pat Schunk) to retain full credit.

So if Stevie did happen to play the "change a word, get a third" card with "Seven Wonders," it doesn't seem to be something she made a habit of. Thankfully.

Did Sandy Stewart complain about this? I don't understand why this became such an issue with fans. I mean Stevie made Sandy a millionaire.

[BlueDenimLamp]

Originally Posted by SpyNote

Did Sandy Stewart complain about this? I don't understand why this became such an issue with fans. I mean Stevie made Sandy a millionaire.

Yes she did and her people told her that she could put "Seven Wonders" on her next record or keep quiet and make a LOT of money...

[olive]

Elvis wanted to record I Will Always Love You ,colonel tom parker told Dolly she had to forfeit the right/and publishing 100% to Elvis .... we all know how that ended

she also recorded Stairway to Heaven , she changed the lyrics with Plant and Pages permission/insistence to make it hers but has no credit

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by BlueDenimLamp

Yes she did and her people told her that she could put "Seven Wonders" on her next record or keep quiet and make a LOT of money...

Well, in all fairness, we were only told that Sandy complained and was advised to keep quiet. Sandy has never once, to the absolute best of my knowledge, complained publicly about it.

So until such time as she does, then the allegation is nothing more than hearsay.

[SpyNote]

Originally Posted by BlueDenimLamp

Yes she did and her people told her that she could put "Seven Wonders" on her next record or keep quiet and make a LOT of money...

So she had a choice and chose to make a lot of money? Well, it doesn't seem to be bothering her much today. The song is still paying off, with the AHS Coven exposure and the forthcoming DVD set.

[SpyNote]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Well, in all fairness, we were only told that Sandy complained and was advised to keep quiet. Sandy has never once, to the absolute best of my knowledge, complained publicly about it.

So until such time as she does, then the allegation is nothing more than hearsay.

Is the person who reported this credible? We get a lot of fan fiction (uncorroborated statements) on the boards, so I'm more curious where it came from.

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by SpyNote

So she had a choice and chose to make a lot of money? Well, it doesn't seem to be bothering her much today. The song is still paying off, with the AHS Coven exposure and the forthcoming DVD set.

She was duped. That was Stevie's only good song on that album. She needed her.