the unsavory truth about songwriting credit

[ricohv]

Many times we find out stories that we've rehashed a million times were wrong all along and I wonder if the Seven Wonders songwriting is one of them i.e. maybe it's as simple as: Sandy heard the recorded song, pointed out Stevie's incorrect lyrics and said "you've made it your own so now you should get songwriting credit". And maybe she insisted as a response to some generous act Stevie had done for her in regards to publishing or songwriting. And so maybe Stevie said: At the most I'll give myself credit for "additional lyrics" so everyone knows the song is YOURS, but I won't take any financial return for songwriting this song.
It's all hypothetical, I know, but my point is: gouging someone for songwriting credit does not fit the personality profile of our girl. She does have an ego; she is unrealistic and tells "untruths" or "inaccuracies" about herself and time frames, but never at someone else's expense, especially in regards to what she knows is the core of most of the luxury she's had in this life: songwriting.
I really believe all this speculation on our part is overblown, and overblown in the wrong direction. Not sure why it took me 13 years as a member of The Ledge to pipe up but there you have it! Lol Ricoh

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by ricohv

Many times we find out stories that we've rehashed a million times were wrong all along and I wonder if the Seven Wonders songwriting is one of them i.e. maybe it's as simple as: Sandy heard the recorded song, pointed out Stevie's incorrect lyrics and said "you've made it your own so now you should get songwriting credit". And maybe she insisted as a response to some generous act Stevie had done for her in regards to publishing or songwriting. And so maybe Stevie said: At the most I'll give myself credit for "additional lyrics" so everyone knows the song is YOURS, but I won't take any financial return for songwriting this song.
It's all hypothetical, I know, but my point is: gouging someone for songwriting credit does not fit the personality profile of our girl. She does have an ego; she is unrealistic and tells "untruths" or "inaccuracies" about herself and time frames, but never at someone else's expense, especially in regards to what she knows is the core of most of the luxury she's had in this life: songwriting.
I really believe all this speculation on our part is overblown, and overblown in the wrong direction. Not sure why it took me 13 years as a member of The Ledge to pipe up but there you have it! Lol Ricoh

Well why did she accept credit for that? She could of said no. The credit is ridiculous.

[BombaySapphire3]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

Well why did she accept credit for that? She could of said no. The credit is ridiculous.

What she should have done is trade the Seven Wonders credit for the songwriting credits for Welcome to the Room Sara and When I see you Again...now that would have been sharp bargaining .

[APerfectLie]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

Well why did she accept credit for that? She could of said no. The credit is ridiculous.

Why? We have heard that Stevie changed one word, but we have also heard she changed quite a few. Until we have the original we will never know how ridiculous the credit is.

[tabruns]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

Well why did she accept credit for that? She could of said no. The credit is ridiculous.

The obvious answer is because Stewart wanted the "additional lyrics by Stevie Nicks" because Nicks in several spots didn't sing the lyrics that Stewart actually wrote.

So it's not Nicks trying to grab credit, its Stewart wanting it known that the lyrics aren't what she actually wrote.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by tabruns

The obvious answer is because Stewart wanted the "additional lyrics by Stevie Nicks" because Nicks in several spots didn't sing the lyrics that Stewart actually wrote.

So it's not Nicks trying to grab credit, its Stewart wanting it known that the lyrics aren't what she actually wrote.

Songwriters typically don't give away their bread and butter ($$) for a word or two. It's when someone makes a substantial contribution to the song/meaning/melody whatever.

Frankly I *do* believe our girl could have grabbed the credit-- or people acting or her behalf. The music business is pretty nasty. (Stevie's famous words "We're rock stars, and rock stars aren't nice"). And reading the articles, it talks about record labels, managers, whomever demanding writing credit for their artist so that person appears to be responsible for creating their own material and success … and if Stevie didn't bring enough good stuff to the table for FM, I can totally see her management fearing it would look bad for her to be covering someone else's material on a Mac record. On a solo record is one thing-- there are 10-12 songs on an album and that's a tough order to fill for any writer on every.single.album. So having a couple of songs by other writers there isn't anything "bad". But to only have to cough up 3 songs for FM and not even be able to do that would make her look really bad. Not to say she didn't have all her vault material but obviously she liked Seven Wonders, took it to FM, *they* really liked it and thought it had single potential, and it would just look bad for Stevie to just be the 'singer' on an outside writer's song on a Mac album.

It's a business all about 'image' and not necessarily about truth or honesty or integrity (ask Lindsey, he can talk about that forever). So yeah I can see Stevie's managers saying to Sandy, "think of the money you'll make in royalties even as a cowrite on a FM album". Having that hit with the Mac means she can charge more for her songs if other bands/singers want to do them. It's all tradeoffs.

[ricohv]

Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3

What she should have done is trade the Seven Wonders credit for the songwriting credits for Welcome to the Room Sara and When I see you Again...now that would have been sharp bargaining .

Haha Bombay Sapphire for the best answer yet! Case closed.
Ricoh

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by tabruns

The obvious answer is because Stewart wanted the "additional lyrics by Stevie Nicks" because Nicks in several spots didn't sing the lyrics that Stewart actually wrote.

So it's not Nicks trying to grab credit, its Stewart wanting it known that the lyrics aren't what she actually wrote.

So Stewart just decided to give away credit and money for one of her best songs... Don't think so

[ricohv]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

So Stewart just decided to give away credit and money for one of her best songs... Don't think so

Well, they were friends, remember? Isn't it possible Stevie could have credit WITHOUT taking money? I think it's possible AND probable.
Ricoh

[WatchChain]

There was also a rumour that Stevie and Sandy had a falling out in the mid 80's----something to do with Stevie's overwhelming vocals being all over Sandy solo album "Cat Dancer". Sandy went in and tried to tone down the vocals so it didn't sound like a Stevie Nicks album. This is said to be the reason that Sandy does not appear on "Rock A Little" (while she was all over "The Wild Heart"). Sometime after, Stevie and Sandy made up and "Seven Wonders" ended up on "Tango In The Night".

ALSO, speaking of songwriting royalties, Lindsey stated last year that Christine SOLD her music catalog. That doesn't seem like a smart move, she must have received a WHOLE LOTTA MONEY !! So, does that mean Chris no longer gets paid when her songs are played? Do the Mac have to pay money to include her songs in the new 2014 set list?

[KarmaContestant]

Tango In The Night would have been the first album for that lineup without a hit single for Stevie with royalties for songwriting credit, had she not been allocated some credit for writing Seven Wonders.

Stevie is very kind and sweet and lovely and all, but I wouldn't doubt for a moment that she had the foresight to look out for herself since she obviously had no other avenue with Fleetwood Mac for the income a hit single would have generated at that period of time in the music business. I don't see anything wrong with that, though. When I See You Again and Welcome To the Room...Sara certainly were not going to drive up album sales, and didn't stand a chance at being released for a single with a video that got heavy rotation. Just speculation, obviously, as until Sandy or Stevie talks about it, we won't really know.

But, I wouldn't be surprised if the decision was purely one made to financially benefit Stevie, who until then, was an unstoppable source for a hit singles under the Fleetwood Mac name.

[KarmaContestant]

Originally Posted by WatchChain

Do the Mac have to pay money to include her songs in the new 2014 set list?

Unlikely. Bands and solo acts cover songs all the time on live shows.

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by KarmaContestant

Tango In The Night would have been the first album for that lineup without a hit single for Stevie with royalties for songwriting credit, had she not been allocated some credit for writing Seven Wonders.

Stevie is very kind and sweet and lovely and all, but I wouldn't doubt for a moment that she had the foresight to look out for herself since she obviously had no other avenue with Fleetwood Mac for the income a hit single would have generated at that period of time in the music business. I don't see anything wrong with that, though. When I See You Again and Welcome To the Room...Sara certainly were not going to drive up album sales, and didn't stand a chance at being released for a single with a video that got heavy rotation. Just speculation, obviously, as until Sandy or Stevie talks about it, we won't really know.

But, I wouldn't be surprised if the decision was purely one made to financially benefit Stevie, who until then, was an unstoppable source for a hit singles under the Fleetwood Mac name.

Me either... And she was full of herself, an entitled rock star... A lot them are like that. Elvis wanted total songwriting credit from Dolly Parton to record I Will Always Love You and she said no. Thank god because Whitney made that song a phenomenon and she made a fortune. Beyoncé got songwriting credit for Bootylicous and someone else wrote it.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by WatchChain

ALSO, speaking of songwriting royalties, Lindsey stated last year that Christine SOLD her music catalog. That doesn't seem like a smart move, she must have received a WHOLE LOTTA MONEY !! So, does that mean Chris no longer gets paid when her songs are played? Do the Mac have to pay money to include her songs in the new 2014 set list?

They don't have to pay anything different than if Christine hadn't sold her catalog.

Same thing with Silver Springs. Whether it's owned by Welsh Witch music or Barbara Nicks, FM doesn't have to pay a different amount to play it in concert.

Michele

[singertobe]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

With reference back to a discussion on an earlier thread about songwriting and credits and royalties, I thought some of you might find this article of interest:

http://www.theguardian.com/music/mus...ts-songwriters

Here's a quote that talks about the type of situation that was being discussed here about Stevie getting credit for changing a word or two in Seven Wonders written by Sandy Stewart-

"It's common for artists to demand songwriting credits on a track – jokingly called "change a word, get a third" by songwriters – sometimes without having anything to do with the writing. An artist once demanded 70% of a song I had worked on, if she decided to record it. As the song was a three-way co-write, that would've left the three of us who actually had written it with 10% each."

Here's another quote from an article about the song Blurred Lines. Robin Thicke demanded credit as writer even though Pharrell Williams wrote it:

"As to why Williams let Thicke take the credit, it's just business as usual according to his testimony:

"This is what happens every day in our industry," said Williams during his own deposition. "You know, people are made to look like they have much more authorship in the situation than they actually do. So that's where the embellishment comes in."

I always wonder, too, just how much of a song was actually written by the superstar who's credited as its writer. Now we know."
http://gawker.com/robin-thicke-was-h...-bl-1634886014

I might be getting a bit off topic here, but am I the only one who thinks Blurred Lines is one of the most disgusting songs ever?