Rejected album before 'Time'

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

He really must be KING of the assh*les.

I mean, she recorded with Danny on her first solo album and on three Fleetwood Mac albums, and he tried to beat Peter with a Les Paul.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I mean, she recorded with Danny on her first solo album and on three Fleetwood Mac albums, and he tried to beat Peter with a Les Paul.

She really was one of the guys. I'll bet she could've taken him.

[Macfan4life]

I dont know if this is true but I read online that some of her beef with Dave may have been connected to her friend's beef with Dave. Steve Winwood and Dave were both in Traffic and had a big falling out and could not stand each other.
You gotta love Chris with what she said. If you remember her online 1995 chat she says the new creation of Fleetwood Mac is really "bizarre". She says Dave is a fine guitar player but would not have been her first choice and he does not fit with the band. I remember at the time how harsh that sounded talking about a current member of the band. But now we know why.
Here is the chat which is fun to look back on. I love the fact she admits listening to Mystery To Me the other night and is one of her favorite albums.

https://www.fleetwoodmac-uk.com/articles/FMart106.htm

[WalkAThinLine.]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

I dont know if this is true but I read online that some of her beef with Dave may have been connected to her friend's beef with Dave. Steve Winwood and Dave were both in Traffic and had a big falling out and could not stand each other.

Winwood has said in interviews that Mason never gelled with the band, as indicated by his sporadic departures from the group and his failure to appear on several songs written by the other members. Here's a quote from Mason's Wikipedia page:

"We all [Winwood, Jim Capaldi and Chris Wood] tended to write together, but Mason would come in with a complete song that he was going to sing and tell us all what he expected us to play. No discussion, like we were his backing group."

[Macfan4life]

Originally Posted by WalkAThinLine.

Winwood has said in interviews that Mason never gelled with the band, as indicated by his sporadic departures from the group and his failure to appear on several songs written by the other members. Here's a quote from Mason's Wikipedia page:

"We all [Winwood, Jim Capaldi and Chris Wood] tended to write together, but Mason would come in with a complete song that he was going to sing and tell us all what he expected us to play. No discussion, like we were his backing group."

I have read some Dave interviews with him looking back on his short time with Fleetwood Mac. He enjoyed his short tenure but he spoke about 2 major frustrations with the band. He complained that every member in the band had their own manager which made it tough for the band to make decisions. Too many competing interests. Second he talks about Chris not touring with the band. He does not say anything bad about her but was irked that she would not be going on the road to promote the album with them especially sicne she was given almost half the songs. I can see and understand that frustration. Its that same frustration Lindsey felt when Chris offered to take part in SYW and not tour. Its a major buzz killer for a band because you feel hollow because the road show is not going to be the same band from the studio. It just was an odd situation because Warner demanded Chris be on the album. Lastly he talks about his frustration with Warner never promoting the album. It just was dropped without any fanfare. So while he did not say anything, I can sense he felt the band was duped by the record company. They demanded Chris be on the album yet when it was finished and came out, they walked away from it.

[Street_Dreamer]

Christine and Steve Winwood were pretty close, weren't they? I'm not insinuating that they were a couple but they seemed to have a great respect for one another. Winwood did work on Christine's 1984 album too. Besides whatever personal interactions Christine had with Dave, she probably heard tales from Winwood about him which only furthered her dislike of him.

I've never felt that Dave was a good fit for Fleetwood Mac. It always felt like a square peg going into a round hole. Even if Christine didn't have issues toward him, as an artist he didn't fit with the lineage of guitarists in the band. He always came across to me as someone who was a "straight ahead" guitarist. He didn't have the "feel" that Peter, Danny, Jeremy, the Bobs, Lindsey, Rick or even Billy had. I'm far from being knowledgeable about guitarists and their styles but that's how I've always felt.

Dave may have had a history as being in Traffic as well as his success as a solo artist but I don't think his name sold a bunch of tickets or albums for FM. Todd Sharp certainly didn't have a name but he would have been a better choice all around. He already had a history with those in the group sans John and his presence MAY have helped Christine change her mind about touring.

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

I dont know if this is true but I read online that some of her beef with Dave may have been connected to her friend's beef with Dave. Steve Winwood and Dave were both in Traffic and had a big falling out and could not stand each other.
You gotta love Chris with what she said. If you remember her online 1995 chat she says the new creation of Fleetwood Mac is really "bizarre". She says Dave is a fine guitar player but would not have been her first choice and he does not fit with the band. I remember at the time how harsh that sounded talking about a current member of the band. But now we know why.
Here is the chat which is fun to look back on. I love the fact she admits listening to Mystery To Me the other night and is one of her favorite albums.

https://www.fleetwoodmac-uk.com/articles/FMart106.htm

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by Street_Dreamer

Christine and Steve Winwood were pretty close, weren't they?

I don’t think they were as close as some thought. His tribute made it seem like they were more acquaintances than pals.

Christine’s dislike of Dave was its own thing. Mick said Bekka had an issue him and Richard discussed his own issues with Dave, who had been a friend prior to Time. So, it wasn’t just Christine. Dave sounded like a real…character. (Seeing him on Saturday, BTW. Second row!)

Todd Sharp certainly didn't have a name but he would have been a better choice all around. He already had a history with those in the group sans John and his presence MAY have helped Christine change her mind about touring.

I wonder if something happened between Todd and the others or if Rick Vito was just the last guy Mick talked to before Lindsey quit? Or maybe Stevie thought adding Billy AND Todd went a step too far as far a balance of power/band dynamics?

In hindsight, not going with Todd in 1987 was a huge mistake. Todd had recent success collaborating with Christine, which was more relevant to Fleetwood Mac fans in 1987 than Peter Green. He would have been a better choice as far a chemistry was concerned. I get the vibe he wasn’t enthusiastic about being a frontman after his album didn’t do anything and would have been happy letting Billy do the heavy lifting. Assuming Stevie quit and Christine retired from touring, I think Todd would have kept the band from fracturing, maybe giving us an early-90s Fleetwood Mac album instead of Shakin’ The Cage, Gotta Band, and Coming Home.

Rick had solo aspirations and I get the vibe he never fully embraced the Fleetwood Mac community. Dave was just simply the wrong fit all around.

[SteveMacD]

That said, the setlist would have been better if Todd had joined in 1993:

The Chain
Say You Love Me/You Make Loving Fun
Oh Well
I’m the One
Gold Dust Woman (or, better, So Excited)
World Turning
Got A Hold On Me
Don’t Stop
—
Go Your Own Way
Imagine/Dreamin’ The Dream

[David]

Originally Posted by Street_Dreamer

Christine and Steve Winwood were pretty close, weren't they? I'm not insinuating that they were a couple but they seemed to have a great respect for one another. Winwood did work on Christine's 1984 album too.

They knew each other for such a long time. He carried her books on the way home from school, yes?

Besides whatever personal interactions Christine had with Dave, she probably heard tales from Winwood about him which only furthered her dislike of him.

It wouldn’t surprise me.

I've never felt that Dave was a good fit for Fleetwood Mac. It always felt like a square peg going into a round hole.

Yeah, he was absolutely not a fit at all. That screwiness was most pronounced in concert. Saw him twice with Mac in Central California at a resort (94 and 95), and he acted like a backup guy with his mind on the day’s shopping or something.

Although I do have to hand it to Dave and Capaldi because they managed to mildly entertain 34,000 people waiting to see Fleetwood Mac at the LA Forum two nights running with just their acoustic guitars when they were pulled in last minute to open. (They weren’t even billed in the paper.)

[SteveMacD]

So, I very briefly talked to the man, the myth, the legend himself, but it was at the end of the night, after some 63 year old woman (age approximated, but I stand by it) tried to get him to come back to her place (mind you, he even said during the show that his wife was selling her yoga book at the merch table).

He said “Hey lady! I’m 77!”

Really, points enough. I just said a few things, said thanks, and went on my way. Lesson learned, don’t give up your space in line to a ho.

Biggest takeaway: Dave doesn’t look at the crowd. I was in the second row, right in front of him, and all he did was stare down. Kind of unnerving.

[Penguin Emeritus]

Originally Posted by David

They knew each other for such a long time. He carried her books on the way home from school, yes?

Nah, that's one of Stevie's embellishments. I think she just knew him casually as a fellow musician from Birmingham . I remember reading that Chris said when they were working on the song for her solo album, that she and winwood had to go get drunk at a pub to sort of break the ice between them , because they really didn't know anything about each other.

-Lis

[Murrow]

As I understood it, ALITC was the originally planned title for Time before Warners insisted songs from Chris be included.

But yes I'd be fascinated to know what other songs the Billy/Bekka/Dave lineup recorded.

I gathered around 1993 there was talk of doing an album as a four-piece with Chris and Billy - this lineup had already released Love Shines and Heart of Stone on the 25 Years compilation.

But it all gets very odd between BtM and Time and what happened may depend on who you ask.

[SteveMacD]

I just want to know the timeline. Billy and Bekka make it seem like Christine was actively involved throughout. Christine said she left the project, Richard said he left the project, Bekka said Christine was against “These Strange Times” while Billy was neutral, but sided with Christine. Billy said “Dreamin’ the Dream” had to be approved of by Christine and Dave.

I firmly believe Christine was involved for the first 3/4 of the album. Same for Richard. They both left at some point and the band submitted an album without her, but was rejected. That’s when they threw some studio demos on the album.

Everyone has been so vague about it.

Frustrating.

[Murrow]

All I remember is this (my life was kind of focussed on other stuff around 1991-92 so I wasn't up to the minute at the time):

1990: Stevie and Christine announce they are leaving the group

1991: Rick leaves too

1992: The 25 Years box set comes out with two newly recorded tracks featuring Mick, John, Chris and Billy. It turns out that Chris's reluctance is to tour rather than to record.

1993: Dave and Bekka are announced as new members. A promotional picture appears featuring the (soon-to-be) Time lineup but without Billy - Chris and Bekka are holding fake beards to their faces. According to Billy in the Penguin Q & A he had left at this time to pursue his solo career (releasing Coming Home in 1993).

1994: The band play at the World Cup concert - I actually saw this on TV, a four song set. The lineup includes Billy but not Chris. I heard later (I think from Billy maybe in the Q & A) that he'd been persuaded back. With Chris's reluctance to tour I can well see why Mick would have wanted a familiar face back rather than to be solely fronted by the two new members.

I think we all know the rest.

[cbBen]

The World Cup concert was not a "tour."

I'm thinking Chris left the band sometime in 1993, and her return in 1997 was after a four year absence – just a bit longer than Stevie's.

She just stuck around long enough to cut some material for Time before departing.