Pre-Rumours MacNuggets

[Evan Morris]

I read that he was quite pissed with Mike Vernon for having the strings added behind his back.

I love them all, but the live version from Shrine 69 is my favorite.

[BklynBlue]

Just for the record, the use of strings on 'Need Your Love So Bad' could not have been inspired by King's (actually, producer Bill Szymczyk's) use of them on 'The Thrill Is Gone' as that record was not released until late 1969, appearing on his LP "Completely Well", with the single charting (King's first crossover hit after twenty years of recording) in early 1970.
It has been said that Mayall introduced the song to Green and maybe he did - it appeared on Kings 1968 LP "Lucille", which also contained 'Worried Dream'
Green was on something of a King "kick" at the time, having gone to Paris to see King play in April of 1968 (same month Fleetwood Mac recorded 'Need Your Love So Bad' and Green can be heard performing at least three other numbers closely associated with King around this time: 'Buzz Me', 'How Blue Can You Get' and 'Worried Dream'

[slipkid]

What a shock I received while watching a 1970 episode of "Doctor Who ; Spearhead from Space" on Netflix instant streaming. The scene of a doll production plant used a twenty second snippet of "Oh Well".

[ThePenguin]

^
The point of the MacNuggets thread, which started in Rumours, was to have a "catch all" thread, in which FM media mentions that only have a derivative connection to the group could be posted. That way, Ledge members who were not interested in such trivial tidbits could simply skip the thread and the forum would not be clogged with such tangential fare.

I realize that the MacNuggets are not everyone's cup of tea. That's why they are confined to one place and you can just ignore the entire thread and concentrate on the topics containing more substantial FM material, which does interest you.

[dino]

Originally Posted by ThePenguin

^


I realize that the MacNuggets are not everyone's cup of tea. That's why they are confined to one place and you can just ignore the entire thread and concentrate on the topics containing more substantial FM material, which does interest you.

First, thanks for maintaining The Ledge.
The thread can easily be ignored yes, but it's bad when incorrect or offensive information is collected. Or links to illegal downloads. It amounts to little more then a "spam" thread.

[sharksfan2000]

Originally Posted by dino

First, thanks for maintaining The Ledge.
The thread can easily be ignored yes, but it's bad when incorrect or offensive information is collected. Or links to illegal downloads. It amounts to little more then a "spam" thread.

Yes, thanks to The Penguin for keeping this site going, and for the MacNuggets explanation.

I agree with dino here - we do need to be more careful about what gets reposted from various sources on the web, both in this thread and in other ones. I want to take his comment a little further too. While there's no harm in presenting most of the bits and pieces of info that are reposted on this thread, spreading untrue information can be harmful. As people who are supposed to care about the band and its members, we should take greater care in seeing that this does not continue to happen, as with the "Peter Green fired a pistol in the direction of a delivery boy" post." If such a post is accompanied by a comment from whoever posts it that it's an example of these types of false rumors - or even just a note questioning whether such a claim is true or not - that's one thing. But to present it as fact, without such a comment or critique, serves only to further spread misinformation.

By analogy, there are plenty of crazy claims around the web that Stevie Nicks is a witch, yet I don't see those being reposted without comment on the Rumours MacNuggets thread - I found few posted at all, and those that I found were explicitly being held up for deserved ridicule. So why should we allow different treatment for pre-Rumours band members? Are they considered lesser members and not deserving of the same respect as Rumours-era members?

In this particular case, a number of people stepped in to set the record straight, but we can't always count on that happening. We all just need to be more respectful of all Fleetwood Mac members and see that we don't spread harmful and false information about them.

[ThePenguin]

The fact that something is posted in this thread, with an attribution saying where it came from, does not mean it's posted as "fact." You can post an article or comment without adopting its content as true. So, blaming a poster for the false information in a statement that is not theirs is illogical.

If you see something that's untrue, then you can simply comment on it yourself.

That happens plenty of times in all of the threads here. It's not the sole obligation of the person who posted it.

There's incorrect information posted all of the time, from song names, dates, incorrect line ups to rumors that Stevie Nicks is not only a witch, but that she used a suppository for cocaine. When there's information that people disagree with, they respond with corrections or their own opinions.

Not everyone who posts information has as much knowledge about Peter Green as you do, so they can't post with explanatory comments in all situations. If you are suggesting that people only post in the thread if they are knowledgeable, that would make for better reading, indeed. However, it's not a rule I'm interested in implementing.

This is a discussion board. It's not a reference source. As an archive, it is intended to honor and preserve Fleetwood Mac memories in a way. However, only as a place where you can observe public conversations over time, not as an historical repository.

If I ever get enough time to update the biography section, then you can believe that I'm going to be concerned with upholding only truth and facts. But that is not the purpose of these community bulletin boards. And not everyone who participates in them has the same motivations or interests. Unfortunately, some of the material (perhaps most of the material) you'll find that others post is not what you would post yourself.

You can always participate by contradicting, correcting or amending any inaccuracies you see or, if it's just too annoying to sift through them, then I can perfectly understand that and think such threads are best avoided.

[vivfox]

By Doug Davis Thursday, Mar 8 2012

The Grateful Dead sang, "What a long, strange trip it's been" a mere five years into their psychedelic journey. That was 10 years before Christopher Owens, songwriter-guitarist of the San Francisco-based band Girls, came into the world. That puts his trip at 30-plus years, and it has been strange indeed.

Born and raised within the Children of God cult, Owens roamed the world with his mother. He observed as she and her fellow members preached and trolled for new recruits through the devious techniques of the cult (Google "flirty fishing"). All cultural content — music, books, videos, pictures — was controlled by cult leaders, with most of it originating within the cult itself.

At least some of the musicians in the cult were competent. The guitar Owens uses to write virtually all his songs was a gift to the Owens family from Jeremy Spencer, a guitarist in the original roster of Fleetwood Mac. Spencer famously disappeared on tour in Los Angeles, eventually surfacing with a head shaved as cult member: a huge celebrity catch for them.

"There was this one center where like 500 members lived called The Jumbo, where all of our music, audio and video cassettes and books were made," explains Owens. "At one point, we got to live there, and Jeremy Spencer lived there too, and was kind of the musical director." Before joining the cult, Owens' mother had been a Fleetwood Mac fan, a point she made when the opportunity presented itself.

"He gave the guitar to my mom, for me and my sisters to learn to play," he continues, "and a couple years later, after we moved to France, I just became obsessed with it."

As soon as he could break away at age 16, he went to live in Amarillo with a sister who'd opted out of the cult. He was free to soak up all forms of popular culture he'd missed in his first 15 years, and was taken under the wing of Stanley Marsh 3, Amarillo's wealthy, eccentric art prankster famous for, among other things, creating the Cadillac Ranch.

The friendship remains strong, with Owens listing himself as a "former member of Stanley Marsh 3's Dynamite Museum"on his Twitter bio. "We are very much in touch, and he is still very big in my life," Owens confesses.

He eventually settled in San Francisco, and drifted through acknowledged bouts with drug addiction. He met and became fast friends with Chet "J.R." White, a fellow musician and producer, and they formed Girls in 2007. They've released two albums, the latest being 2011's Father, Son, Holy Ghost. Owens says the songs often emerge fully formed, captured by singing the lyrics and beat into his phone before they're lost.

He's wandering the world again, now as a touring musician. Owens creates video tour diaries he posts on YouTube under the name "chrissybaby4ever." They're fascinating, often tranquil and obviously personal.

"There's an element where I make them for myself, because I watch them too," explains Owens. "But for others, I also include things like sights that touch me, what books I am reading, or videos I'm watching, as a way of sharing something about myself."

Owens agrees when it's suggested his life reflects a kind of Newtonian social order. "Yeah, my mom, like a lot of people, kind of dropped out, joined this group and had kids, and now the kids have grown up and dropped out of that," he laughs.

http://www.dallasobserver.com/2012-0...stopher-owens/

[vivfox]

Carlos Santana first broke into the big time at Woodstock in 1969. I wasn’t there, but I marveled at his prowess even back then. I’m also struck by how he and his music have remained relevant to this day.

To tell you how much of a fan I am, I still have never been able to completely grasp the fact that the song “Black Magic Woman,” was written in 1968 by Peter Green, then a mainstay of Fleetwood Mac. But Santana made it a worldwide hit in 1970.

Go back and listen to the Mac track–it’s pretty awesome, if you ask me.

http://www.theimproper.com/music/494...ures-woodstock

[vivfox]

Peter Green’s Les Paul

The 1959 Gibson Les Paul of Fleetwood Mac’s Peter Green has one of the most fascinating stories of any sunburst. When Fleetwood Mac’s Peter Green bought his Standard, interest in ’bursts was rising again – partly due to Mike Bloomfield and Eric Clapton, whom Green had replaced in John Mayall’s Blues Breakers.

Green told Guitarist magazine in 1999, “I stumbled across one when I was looking for something more powerful than my Harmony Meteor. I went into Selmer’s in Charing Cross Road [central London] and tried one. It was only £110 and it sounded lovely and the color was really good. But the neck was like a tree trunk… It was very different from Eric’s Les Paul, which was slim with a very fast action.” £110 equals a still-considerable $2,500 today, but Green knew he had a bargain. Green’s Standard – very light in color, and what most now describe as “honeyburst” – featured on many of Mac’s late-’60s releases.

When Green walked away from music in the early ’70s with mental health problems, he sold the guitar to Gary Moore – the Irishman was a friend and close neighbor of Green’s in London. Green initially tried to give the Les Paul to Moore, but Gary insisted on paying the £110 it originally cost. There was also the understanding that if Green ever wanted it back, all he had to do was ask. But Peter never did.

The guitar was celebrated for its sweet tone. Some say Green tinkered with the neck pickup and accidentally refitted the humbucker reversed and “out of phase,” resulting in a more nasal sound. However, Jol Dantzig once had the chance to examine it and he said it wasn’t that the pickup being reversed that was the cause itself, but the actual magnets inside that neck ’bucker were out of phase with one another. Dantzig recalled, “This was the secret we’d all been searching for!”

In Gary Moore’s hands, the guitar featured on numerous tracks – notably the Blues For Greeny album of Fleetwood Mac covers dedicated to his hero. But Moore suddenly sold it in 2006. Why? Only Gary knew, but there were rumors that Gary – who had injured his hand and had to cancel a 2005 tour – was suddenly faced with huge insurance costs.

The guitar is now at Maverick Music in North Carolina. Probably in a vault.

http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyl...sts-0319-2012/

[jeremy spencer]

Originally Posted by vivfox

Peter Green’s Les Paul

The 1959 Gibson Les Paul of Fleetwood Mac’s Peter Green has one of the most fascinating stories of any sunburst. When Fleetwood Mac’s Peter Green bought his Standard, interest in ’bursts was rising again – partly due to Mike Bloomfield and Eric Clapton, whom Green had replaced in John Mayall’s Blues Breakers.

Green told Guitarist magazine in 1999, “I stumbled across one when I was looking for something more powerful than my Harmony Meteor. I went into Selmer’s in Charing Cross Road [central London] and tried one. It was only £110 and it sounded lovely and the color was really good. But the neck was like a tree trunk… It was very different from Eric’s Les Paul, which was slim with a very fast action.” £110 equals a still-considerable $2,500 today, but Green knew he had a bargain. Green’s Standard – very light in color, and what most now describe as “honeyburst” – featured on many of Mac’s late-’60s releases.

When Green walked away from music in the early ’70s with mental health problems, he sold the guitar to Gary Moore – the Irishman was a friend and close neighbor of Green’s in London. Green initially tried to give the Les Paul to Moore, but Gary insisted on paying the £110 it originally cost. There was also the understanding that if Green ever wanted it back, all he had to do was ask. But Peter never did.

The guitar was celebrated for its sweet tone. Some say Green tinkered with the neck pickup and accidentally refitted the humbucker reversed and “out of phase,” resulting in a more nasal sound. However, Jol Dantzig once had the chance to examine it and he said it wasn’t that the pickup being reversed that was the cause itself, but the actual magnets inside that neck ’bucker were out of phase with one another. Dantzig recalled, “This was the secret we’d all been searching for!”

In Gary Moore’s hands, the guitar featured on numerous tracks – notably the Blues For Greeny album of Fleetwood Mac covers dedicated to his hero. But Moore suddenly sold it in 2006. Why? Only Gary knew, but there were rumors that Gary – who had injured his hand and had to cancel a 2005 tour – was suddenly faced with huge insurance costs.

The guitar is now at Maverick Music in North Carolina. Probably in a vault.

http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyl...sts-0319-2012/

That was a steal! I paid $120 for my first 2nd hand Strat in '68 and that was regarded as cheap! Most name guitars in London were selling at twice the price. It's just that Les Pauls were not considered a saleable item when Pete bought his.

[slipkid]

Originally Posted by jeremy spencer

That was a steal! I paid $120 for my first 2nd hand Strat in '68 and that was regarded as cheap! Most name guitars in London were selling at twice the price. It's just that Les Pauls were not considered a saleable item when Pete bought his.

So you, and Peter both bought second hand Strats together. It's obvious since Pete's strat had a retro-fitted volume knob not from Fender stock. Any pre CBS Strat is gold. The tone an original pre mid sixties strat had with only a two tone switch is almost late 50's Les Paul territory. If you couple an original Fender Strat/Telecaster with a vintage Fender amp, you have tone perfection. That's why Peter's Les Paul worked so well with the Fender Dual Showman. Jesse Ed Davies' Tele with a Fender Showman was fat, as was Danny Kirwan's Tele.

Eric Clapton's "Bluesbreaker" 1960 Les Paul guitar was stolen in 1966. Either it still exists, and whomever has it isn't going to tell, or it's been lost due to some catastrophic event.

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by vivfox

Peter Green’s Les Paul

the neck was like a tree trunk… It was very different from Eric’s Les Paul, which was slim with a very fast action.”

Mine must be the same neck. It's like
playing a baseball bat.

[SisterNightroad]

Top 100 ’60s Rock Albums
by Ultimate Classic Rock Staff

The Top 100 ’60s Rock Albums represent the moment when popular music came of age. In the earliest part of the decade, bands were still regularly referencing earlier sounds and themes. By the middle, something powerful and distinct was happening, which is why the latter part of the ’60s weighs so heavily on our list. A number of bands evolved alongside fast-emerging trends of blues rock, folk rock, psychedelia and hard rock, adding new complexities to the music even as the songs themselves became more topical. If there’s a thread running through the Top 100 ’60s Rock Albums and this period of intense change, it has to do with the forward-thinking artists who managed to echo and, in some cases, advance the zeitgeist. Along the way, legends were made.

'Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac'
Fleetwood Mac (1968): Green, who had met Mick Fleetwood and John McVie as members of John Mayall’s Bluesbreakers, later descended into mental illness – opening the door for a more mainstream turn by the band. There is much to recommend for blues lovers, however, in these gritty early recordings.




Read More: Top 100 '60s Rock Albums | http://ultimateclassicrock.com/60s-r...ckback=tsmclip