Has Fm.lb,sn Reached Their End?

[David A]

Hello All

I am going to try and carefully explain what I am trying to say, and or what I sense. I am wondering if this is it for FM,SN,LB . What I mean by, if this is it, is the fact that has FM, SN, LB time as relevant players on the actual music charts come to a end. It is funny, because I know a lot of people say they don’t care about sales, etc. which is fine, if you like the music then that is all that you care about. However, let us all be objective and realistic, Sales do matter at the end of the game. If you are not selling, then you are not going to be around very long , and if you don’t sell then you will be dropped by your label. Also, let’s face it, for the most part TV, Media mostly only cover and or report acts that are actually selling records, etc. For example, I have always been able to tell friends “well, Fleetwood Mac may be old, but at least they aint playing the county fairs”. That example means, that now a days you will see artists like Styx, Journey, Hall & Oates, Pat Benatar, and so on playing shows at a County Fair, and in some ways, even though im sure they are doing it because they love it, I feel bad for them ONLY because they are no longer relevant in today’s music (for better or for worse) and they are haven’t sniffed the top 20, or hell the top 200 in years, and I have always been able to say that FM has never been relegated to that. However, let’s look at the facts.
The Dance was huge in 1997
Say You Will (2003) Well, I know for sure it has not gone platinum, and I think at best it will eventually and or be GOLD. However, it’s funny, when I look back at the Destiny Rules Doc, I sometimes want to jump in and tell LB and Mick, “guys im sorry, but the estimates you guys have in your head are going to be so far off” LOL. I mean, I really get the impression that back THEN LB and Mick, etc, thought SYW would sell maybe 2-3 million copies, and boy was that so not the case. I think the sales of SYW really scared me even then, because let’s face it, for the most part BEFORE then FM never had any problems selling records. So, SYW didn’t sell as much as was expected. However, I think the success of the tour was enough to maybe cover that up.

LB UTS & GOS records. Well, LB never sells, so it isn’t like anyone expected those albums to sell, BUT LB did have a record label for both those albums. GOS is amazing, and I am a little surprised it didn’t get as much play, but having said all that. NOW LB , from what we know, may not even have a record label. So, back then those 2 albums HAD labels

SN – IYD Album. I have said that I give props for #6 debut, and for the most part it is getting critical claim, etc. But let’s try and be objective and realistic. IYD more than likely will NOT go Gold and or Platinum. And at best, let’s say it ends up selling maybe 115,000 when it’s all said and done. TISL didn’t sell, I don’t think as much as was expected, and of course that is followed by IYD lack luster sales. So, for SN any way, it is a strange place, because she still is able to debut a album in the Top 10 , but the problem is the album will drop off so quick from the charts and not go Gold, etc. And that is a far cry from where her previous albums have done.

So, Having said all that. What can we really expect in the future for FM, SN, LB. Have they reached the point where they can no longer sell records ? For me, that is sad, because for so long, I was always able to use that argument, that they CAN sell records , but whatever the reason may be, state of music, etc. Can they still do it? Because if you start at 2000 – 2011 , the numbers kind of point to NO. I mean, FM has SYW as their last effort, and that album had lack luster sales to say the least, LB may not even have a record label any more, even though I think that’s a good thing, but it also says that NO record company wants anything to do with him, which isn’t good, and SN , despite IYD being a maybe great album ( I haven’t heard it, so don’t know), the album at best will be lack luster in sales. What can we really expect from them anymore? On the CHARTS any way.

But, the weird part, is Bruce Springsteen (E Street Band) And The Eagles are still selling records, and FM was pretty much around when those acts were. I mean, I know for a Fact, Bruce and the boys album may have been #1 and I know it has sold decent to well, in the millions, and hell the Eagles last album, Long Road Eden sold 4 million, at the least 2 , and I think “how the hell are they selling, and FM cant”. It is just very weird.

I Know sales aren’t everything, etc. However it is like Super Bowl rings, no matter how many times you argue Dan Marino Is the best, you will always have ppl and the media saying “well, he never won a ring”. Similar to music, “how many copies did it sell”. Most ppl , and definitely the media, will judge bands and albums by where it falls on the charts and how much it sells. And I just wonder if maybe The Dance used up all of FM, SN, LB good sales karma. In many ways, if you really look at it, maybe it did.

Destiny Rules doc, looking back is funny. LB and Mick talking about how they are going to release something extraordinary, etc., and I can assume, that maybe even Sales wise, they were anticipating a multimillion seller, and all the arguments about double cd, etc. In many ways, looking back, since SYW was destined to be lack luster, they should have just made it a double CD. Even though maybe at that time, LB and Mick may have overestimated their ability to sell the record, I can’t blame them, they were coming off the Dance, all be it YEARS later, and The Dance sold a ton. But, you know what, maybe Christine was more important to them commercially than any of us, well, I thought . I know SN took 10 years to make a solo record, TISL hasn’t exactly sold well, and even though many ppl love IYD, it doesn’t appear to be a big time seller, well I mean, a album with legs, and the fact that LB does not have, or appear to have a record label. Maybe FM is no longer relevant on the charts.

To me, and remember im not trying to fight with anyone, that is sad, because I never thought FM would get to this point, maybe I underestimated time itself, who knows. But, yet Bruce and The Eagles still sell.

Maybe The Eagles need to release another new album, and then depending on how well it sells, I’ll know, because aren’t FM and The Eagles on the same playing field?

Well, thanks for all your time, I hope people understand what im saying and trying to express 

[KarmaContestant]

As a fan, sales are irrelevant. Popularity doesn't matter. Radio play is meaningless. I have the music, I love it, and I can listen whenever I want - thus my needs as a fan are met.

My opinion is that Stevie & Lindsey and Fleetwood Mac haven't reached their limit until they officially retire. I'm guessing that can't really be that far away. It's easy to talk the talk, but when Stevie & company hit their 70s, I seriously doubt she'll be feeling up to touring or working very much.

[Silver Springs]

Originally Posted by KarmaContestant

As a fan, sales are irrelevant. Popularity doesn't matter. Radio play is meaningless. I have the music, I love it, and I can listen whenever I want - thus my needs as a fan are met.

My opinion is that Stevie & Lindsey and Fleetwood Mac haven't reached their limit until they officially retire. I'm guessing that can't really be that far away. It's easy to talk the talk, but when Stevie & company hit their 70s, I seriously doubt she'll be feeling up to touring or working very much.

This.

Though as far as Lindsey is concerned, I can see him grasping hold of his craft while in the nursing home. Seriously. He's a workaholic and I just don't see an end to his career until something drastic happens to make his craft an impossibility for him.

[WildHearted]

They've reached legendary/iconic status so no, I don't think that not being #1 on the charts is going to cause their careers to come to a halt like it would say, Justin Bieber if he suddenly stopped getting awesome numbers.

[Silver Springs]

Originally Posted by WildHearted

They've reached legendary/iconic status so no, I don't think that not being #1 on the charts is going to cause their careers to come to a halt like it would say, Justin Bieber if he suddenly stopped getting awesome numbers.

Justin Bieber? Awesome? Do they even go together?

[Heartboy]

I wanted to say something but I don't want to get in trouble so I'll shut up.

[caroline79]

Originally Posted by Silver Springs

This.

Though as far as Lindsey is concerned, I can see him grasping hold of his craft while in the nursing home. Seriously. He's a workaholic and I just don't see an end to his career until something drastic happens to make his craft an impossibility for him.

I agree. I don't want to think of "the end" because that is depressing Eventually they will stop, but I don't want to think of that time being soon. They will at the very least, I think, put out another Fleetwood Mac album. And even though it took Stevie 10 years between solo albums Lindsey has done his in shorter time so maybe he will put out something else.

mmm mmm....I don't know
But their body of work is sooo vast considering everyone's solo efforts as well as FM albums, so when "the end" does come we will still have PLENTY to listen to.

That's it. Can't think about it anymore

[elle]

Originally Posted by Silver Springs

This.

Though as far as Lindsey is concerned, I can see him grasping hold of his craft while in the nursing home. Seriously. He's a workaholic and I just don't see an end to his career until something drastic happens to make his craft an impossibility for him.

lindsey was asked about this by Sara Bairelles at ASCAP, i believe. i wish i knew what the exact question and his exact response were, but apparently he said something like if he stopped it would be a huge change since he now spends about 75% of his time on his music-related activities.

[APerfectLie]

SYW debuted at #3 and IYD debuted at #6, meaning they are still relevant, but they haven't put out enough new material to get new fans. They had TONS of fans after The Dance, but waited SIX YEARS to put out a new album. Therefore all the new fans they may have gained from The Dance probably lost interest by 2003. Stevie waited 7 years for TISL and 10 years for IYD. So all the people who buy their music are people who were fans of it 7-10 years ago. Low sales may affect their ability to get future recording contracts, but in this day and age, record labels are becoming obsolete. Stevie could finance her own damn record next time and release it online and reap way more benefits than she has with WB. WB has still done pretty much NOTHING to promote her new album, so I say, who needs them? FM and SN should give WB the boot and self release their own ****.

[elle]

Originally Posted by APerfectLie

SYW debuted at #3 and IYD debuted at #6, meaning they are still relevant, but they haven't put out enough new material to get new fans. They had TONS of fans after The Dance, but waited SIX YEARS to put out a new album. Therefore all the new fans they may have gained from The Dance probably lost interest by 2003. Stevie waited 7 years for TISL and 10 years for IYD. So all the people who buy their music are people who were fans of it 7-10 years ago. Low sales may affect their ability to get future recording contracts, but in this day and age, record labels are becoming obsolete. Stevie could finance her own damn record next time and release it online and reap way more benefits than she has with WB. WB has still done pretty much NOTHING to promote her new album, so I say, who needs them? FM and SN should give WB the boot and self release their own ****.

and LB had an album practically ready to go in 1998, and WB held it up. i'm glad he finally decided to go his own way.

[McTrouble]

Originally Posted by Silver Springs

This.

Though as far as Lindsey is concerned, I can see him grasping hold of his craft while in the nursing home. Seriously. He's a workaholic and I just don't see an end to his career until something drastic happens to make his craft an impossibility for him.

Old pro rockers like our Linds don't retire, they create music until carted out in a box. If he retired he'd die, simple as. I suspect he could live without everything except his music.

[Silver Springs]

Originally Posted by McTrouble

Old pro rockers like our Linds don't retire, they create music until carted out in a box. If he retired he'd die, simple as. I suspect he could live without everything except his music.

While I don't wish to think of Lindsey's eventual demise, I do agree completely with you. Until his fingers are riddled to the point of immobility with Arthritis, he'll be plucking away at his guitar strings.

[McTrouble]

Originally Posted by Silver Springs

While I don't wish to think of Lindsey's eventual demise, I do agree completely with you. Until his fingers are riddled to the point of immobility with Arthritis, he'll be plucking away at his guitar strings.

Our Linds has years and years and years for us yet - and he's a spring chicken compared to some of the old rockers still going strong. And he has the energy and passion of most artists half his age. I think we've got him for a long time to come, yay!

[Morgana]

Originally Posted by KarmaContestant

As a fan, sales are irrelevant. Popularity doesn't matter. Radio play is meaningless. I have the music, I love it, and I can listen whenever I want - thus my needs as a fan are met.

My opinion is that Stevie & Lindsey and Fleetwood Mac haven't reached their limit until they officially retire. I'm guessing that can't really be that far away. It's easy to talk the talk, but when Stevie & company hit their 70s, I seriously doubt she'll be feeling up to touring or working very much.

And theres that saying, "All good things must come to an end!" best describes the fact that in a few more years they will be in their 70's and like you said, SN & company won't be up for touring. But wait.......there may still be life if Mick Jagger from the Stones keeps on performing as they near their 70's, FM and SN can't let Mick get one up on them. Stevie has always had fragile health and her recent bout with pnemonia sp?) hit her hard.

I my humble FM and SN opinion, for what it's worth (no pun intended) they nver got back their momentum after Tusk. I often wonder had they told Lindsey to take a hike with wanting to command Tusk if things would have been different for their sales. Lindsey refused to do another Rumours and hurt more so than helped their sales and popularity, not to mention the radio station that played the album which fans taped. So Lindsey seems to have hurt more than helped. But......oddly enough the Dance and Bill Clinton boosted them. But the other band members criticzed him too and blamed him for his taking over. Clinton's campaign song was off Rumours, "Don't Stop" The Dance brought back the popularity of Rumours and thts why it was a hit. But I seriously doubt if they will do another tour because by the time they start a new album, and FM takes their time, the time frame to do another album would put them at their late 60's, early 70's. And if Stevie goes on tour to promote IYD it will take even longer.
Sad but true, good gosh I feel old!

[Villavic]

Originally Posted by Morgana

I my humble FM and SN opinion, for what it's worth (no pun intended) they nver got back their momentum after Tusk. !

No doubt! Even Mick admits it in his book. But I guess the momentum would have ended no matter how Tusk or a Rumours-II (what I think it would have been really bad in terms of sales and critics!) had done. The 70s bands suffered, most of them, from a dinosaur label and many of them couldn't evolve or even survive. I think Fleetwood Mac did it fine in the 80s. Tango did better than Mirage, I guess. But we couldn't ask them to repeat the 70s phenomenom.

But let's see what Mick wrote about ending the Tusk tour:

Three days later, in front of a sold-out audience at the Hollywood Bowl, Lindsey leaned into the mike and announced, "This is our last concert . .. for a long time." I'll never forget Stevie's "Landslide" that night, the way she sang about growing older in her scratchy, uncertain voice. It was an ineffable moment. After the show, we had a classic locker-room victory celebration kisses, hugs, champagne, intense feelings of relief mingled with fatigue. To me it felt like the end of an era. And it indeed turned out to be exactly that.