liberals....

[Rob67]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Yowsa... this is a doozy of a thread. I didn't see it when it was first posted, and now it's damn-near impossible to read every post from all 13 pages.

Anyway, people can say all they want about "liberals"... but I'm still proud to be called a liberal.
Social issues are what I care most about. Taxes, social security... that stuff takes a backseat.

I do not wish to see this country "whitewashed" by social conservatism and religious zealots.
Folks get up-in-arms about the Muslims and their extreme religious views, and yet completely overlook the very extreme religious views that are overtaking OUR country. Masked as "patriotism."

I'll say it until I'm blue in the face... no one... not even the leader of MY country... has the right to tell ME what I'm supposed to believe or who I'M allowed to marry.
And as biased as it may sound, I still firmly believe that a vote for George W. Bush is a vote for intolerance and prejudice.

If someone wants an extreme conservative in the White House, I can't stop them from voting for him, and I most likely can't change their minds.
All I can hope is that someday they'll wake up and see that life isn't all about who's going to raise or lower your taxes.

Johnny "Proud To Be A Bleeding Heart Liberal" Stew

I appreciate the response to the intitial thread and your views...

Rock on.

Rob

[Tango]

Not to me anyhow. I don't "hate" groups of people based on what their political party is. As far off as some of Carne's comments hit me, I can sometimes understand his extreme cynicism (ie, the one something to the effect of needing a draft to shake up people). But I really have a hard time with the classification system. All democrats are not "liberal." All republicans are not "conservative." In fact, I suspect most people of all parties fall somewhere in between, and the rhetoric of the extremes are just the loudest. You want to win them to "your side?" Communicate effectively. Don't kill 'em with hate messages, crude pictures and jokes.

You might enjoy reading a similar exchange about "us" vs "them" on another board.

http://piquant.us/mitm/000029.html

I had to laugh at a couple of the witticisms. Maybe it'll help you too:

Wyoming Sen. Alan Simpson, a loyal Republican, used to say: "We have two political parties in this country, the Stupid Party and the Evil Party. I belong to the Stupid Party."

"I'd rather spend my weekends exterminating rats in the tunnels below Penn Station than read a book by either Bill O'Reilly or Michael Moore."

I'm off to the tunnels. Have a good night!

[Rob67]

Originally Posted by Tango

Not to me anyhow. I don't "hate" groups of people based on what their political party is. As far off as some of Carne's comments hit me, I can sometimes understand his extreme cynicism (ie, the one something to the effect of needing a draft to shake up people). But I really have a hard time with the classification system. All democrats are not "liberal." All republicans are not "conservative." In fact, I suspect most people of all parties fall somewhere in between, and the rhetoric of the extremes are just the loudest. You want to win them to "your side?" Communicate effectively. Don't kill 'em with hate messages, crude pictures and jokes.

You might enjoy reading a similar exchange about "us" vs "them" on another board.

http://piquant.us/mitm/000029.html

I had to laugh at a couple of the witticisms. Maybe it'll help you too:

Wyoming Sen. Alan Simpson, a loyal Republican, used to say: "We have two political parties in this country, the Stupid Party and the Evil Party. I belong to the Stupid Party."

"I'd rather spend my weekends exterminating rats in the tunnels below Penn Station than read a book by either Bill O'Reilly or Michael Moore."

I'm off to the tunnels. Have a good night!

Great post...I agree completely....

Rob

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Rob67

**sigh**

Apparently you have never read any of my posts, ever. Wasn't it both you and Carn that I had a decent discussion about the Passion and morality? I thought I expressed my opinions quite clearly there. And, by the way, Wasn't it YOU who had such strong opinions about that film and you HADN"T EVEN SEEN IT???

Hypocritical...don't yah think???

Rob

Not at all. As I've said numerous times, I watched the film, but fast-forwarded through the beatings and floggings. That wasn't my cup of tea. Plus, I don't believe in God, Jesus, or the Bible, so I saw it as a piece of fiction.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Rob67

Or, Kerry's for that matter....

Start here:

http://www.johnkerry.com

Methinks someone doesn't pay attention to anyone but Bush. If you had actually informed yourself about Kerry, you'd know exactly what his plans are. But you're simply another neocon with no credence.

[Rob67]

Originally Posted by dissention

Start here:

http://www.johnkerry.com

Methinks someone doesn't pay attention to anyone but Bush. If you had actually informed yourself about Kerry, you'd know exactly what his plans are. But you're simply another neocon with no credence.

Been to his site and his economic recovery model is bogus, IMO. Plus, his proposals for Iraq stability are already enacted including NATO inclusion.

I would rather be a conservative open to actual ideas (not just Bush bashing) rather then a socialist liberal out of touch with history and reality!

Rob

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Rob67

I would rather be a conservative open to actual ideas

****, you don't even know what it means to be a conservative, do you? Talk about an oxy-moron.

As for being a socialist liberal, "socialist liberals" are the only ones who are in touch with reality, my friend. Christ, you're the one out of touch with reality, you're a conservative living in a blue state.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by dissention

****, you don't even know what it means to be a conservative, do you? Talk about an oxy-moron.

As for being a socialist liberal, "socialist liberals" are the only ones who are in touch with reality, my friend. Christ, you're the one out of touch with reality, you're a conservative living in a blue state.

Oh honey. Stop banging your head against a wall. It's no use.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Oh honey. Stop banging your head against a wall. It's no use.

Good point.

[Rob67]

Originally Posted by dissention

****, you don't even know what it means to be a conservative, do you? Talk about an oxy-moron.

As for being a socialist liberal, "socialist liberals" are the only ones who are in touch with reality, my friend. Christ, you're the one out of touch with reality, you're a conservative living in a blue state.

Extremists are silly...

[Rob67]

Originally Posted by dissention

****, you don't even know what it means to be a conservative, do you? Talk about an oxy-moron.

I don't? What does it mean, then, my liberal minded friend?

Rob

[Rob67]

Originally Posted by Rob67

I don't? What does it mean, then, my liberal minded friend?

Rob

I would forward this definition:

"Conservatism or political conservatism can refer to any of several historically related political philosophies or political ideologies. There are also a number of Conservative political parties in various countries. All of these are primarily (though not necessarily exclusively) identified with the political right.

Among the significant usages of the term "conservatism" are:

1. Institutional conservatism or conservatism proper - Opposition to rapid change in governmental and societal institutions. Some might criticize this kind of conservatism by saying that it is anti-ideological for emphasizing tradition over ideology.

2. Social conservatism or values conservatism - A defense of traditional values, especially religious and nationalistic values and traditional social norms.

3. Fiscal conservatism - Opposition to, or at least strong scepticism about, government debt, excessive government spending, and taxation."


I would definitley say that my beliefs fall under the third example, not so much the first two. Throw in a belief in a proactive, strong and fair foreign policy stance backed by examples and events throughout history.

On social issues, I tend to be split down the middle, depending on the issue. I have various stances ranging from moderate to even * gasp* liberal.

If this makes me conservative, fine. If not, then that’s fine as well. I try not to label myself. Extremists do a good enough job of telling everyone else what they are anyway.

Peace.