Politics and religion. Has anyone.....

[dissention]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

But you're so entertaining as is! Granted you took some getting used to - but we love you the way you are

I said a few things that I wasn't too proud of in the past few days in the Bush/Coulter threads, so I'll be backing off a bit for awhile. The acid wit will never die, though.

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

Or it could be that, too. If so, that is a shame and I hate to see it happen.

It is a shame - but hopefully your theory is more on key - because otherwise I'd feel bad for the guy and for his wife....

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

It is a shame - but hopefully your theory is more on key - because otherwise I'd feel bad for the guy and for his wife....

For a little levity, this reminds me of the Will and Grace episode where Jack goes to one of those meetings where they de-gay gay people and he mentions that he thought it was a ruse to pick up people. Everyone sort of admits that's the case and pairs up and leaves!

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

For a little levity, this reminds me of the Will and Grace episode where Jack goes to one of those meetings where they de-gay gay people and he mentions that he thought it was a ruse to pick up people. Everyone sort of admits that's the case and pairs up and leaves!

That's great. I should watch that show more!

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

That's great. I should watch that show more!

Oh yeah, it's totally funny. My previous boss was gay and he used to talk about it all the time. I just thought it was a gay show and wasn't sure if it would be my thing but started watching and it is so hysterical! It's extremely irreverant.

[½ ¡Ñ§ÅñË ®]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

Well, that "demons" comment certainly implies negativity towards homosexuality, but I won't really address that.

No, my demons were my own. It had nothing to do with homosexuality. I don’t know why you continue to associate something a straight person says has anythingto do with being anti gay. Makes me wonder what going on in that head of yours.

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

For a little levity, this reminds me of the Will and Grace episode where Jack goes to one of those meetings where they de-gay gay people and he mentions that he thought it was a ruse to pick up people. Everyone sort of admits that's the case and pairs up and leaves!

Oh man - that's hilarious!!!

[ShangriLaTroubl]

My mind and viewpoints have definetely changed over the years...even from posting on this very board and listening to the comments of others..I professed to Dissention a while back that "seeing Fahrenheit 911 would not change my mind on anything, and rest assured I would vote for Bush"

This was not that long ago...it was before the Democratic Presidential Primaries, but still in actuality not that far back. Now I consider myself to be a pretty liberal Democrat. Turns out in the past I refused to hear the other side at all, or research or look into the facts and whats going on. My whole family was republicans, and I was under the impression that Democrats are evil people who want to kill babies and give all my money to minorities and Republicans were the ones who wanted to save me money, wanted to save morality as we know it and were for "the little guy."
My oh my how my views have changed. It was not that I was ignorant, well I was somewhat, but turns out I WAS researching but it was only one side. Posting here didn't CHANGE my mind, it simply helped me as a young voter truly see what was inside all along, what my opinion was all along.

I now see the pathetic state of many voters. On Election Day when my step sister, who is quite an idiot I might add, asked me before going to vote for Bush "Is Bush the Democrat or the Republican?", and "Is Dick Cheney running against Bush or against Kerry?"
I swear to God! lol
Chris

[GypsySorcerer]

My views on both politics and religion have evolved.

I used to be in favor of capital punishment. Logically, in my mind, it was a deterrant. Of course, it is not, and there are a host of other reasons I am against capital punishment. I have always been pro-choice and pro gay-rights. Though I was never a Bush "fan," one day I pulled my thumb out of my ass and realized what a liar he was/is, and the horror of what he has done in America and abroad. As I examined more and more issues, I asked myself, "Why are you calling yourself a Republican?"

I must say, I feel much better and stronger in my beliefs now.

[ontheEdgeof17]

Originally Posted by GypsySorcerer

As I examined more and more issues, I asked myself, "Why are you calling yourself a Republican?"

I ask myself the same thing.


I stay Republican just to vote for my family members in the Primaries. Other than that, I am not.

[Mad4stevie]

I will admit to changing my mind about many things since I was younger and living in a small town in PA with fundamentalist Christian parents!

Then: pro-capital punishment, pro-life, no sex, drugs (alcohol included) or rock and roll (my mom actually tossed out my "Faith" tape by George Michael because of the song "I Want Your Sex"!! )

Now: anti-death penalty, on the fence with abortion (I see the moral and legal componets differently after law school), have lived "in sin", have tried a certain unnamed substance, and, well, enjoy listening to all types of music (sexual or not).

I also have gotten some perspective on religion and how it factors into my life. I believe in many of basic componets of Christianity, but I absolutely cannot stand the judgemental, perfectionistic attitude that some believe is necessary to portray to be a "Christain".

I don't know that I have changed anyone's mind about anything, but I do know that I will always listen to what others have to say, as long as it is said in a respectful manner, and will make up my own mind about what I think instead of blindly following.

[sodascouts]

I have changed my mind about something because of the Ledge, but only indirectly. I no longer support the Consitutional amendment to define marriage as between a man and a woman. It wasn't because I was harrassed into it by angry posts, but because people I care about made me see the issue from a different perspective. They treated me with respect, and not like the enemy. I gave good consideration to what they were saying, and I realized that it does not compromise my beliefs in any way to withdraw my support for this amendment.

I haven't said anything before in other threads dealing with this topic because of the confrontational nature of them. I was put on the defensive by name-calling and what I felt where unfair portrayals of conservatives and/or Christians, and the last thing I wanted to do was express my change of heart in that context. I was afraid it would look like I was influenced by such negativity. But this thread has a different tone, so I felt it was an appropriate time to admit it.

Regarding political discussions, I have said this before - I think most Ledgies are thinking people who, if dealt with on an intellectual level, will at least come to respect the point of view of the opposite side even if they don't share it. It's about understanding where other people are coming from. I have actively tried to do that and it has benefitted me greatly. And yes, it has helped me persuade others (not in this forum though! lol). But mostly I do it for myself.

Religion is harder to discuss in a forum such as this. There's no logic involved in religion, so it's pretty futile to try and "discuss" it in this way. No one will ever talk me out of my belief in Christ. I do think religion can be discussed contextually in its relationship to politics, but when the discussion turns to mockery of a belief system, it's no longer worth anything. This is not just mockery of Christianity that I'm talking about, but things like the thread attacking Muslims a while back.... it's all bad. If someone wants to discuss my religion seriously with me, I'm happy to do so, but most of the time that's not the case. Those things are best done in person anyway, not a forum like this.

Also, it's true the low percentage of Republicans on the board does also discourage posting just by nature of the fact that nobody likes to feel ganged up on. I'm sure everyone understands that, even if they're part of the gang. So it's hardly surprising that most of the time the Ledge Chit-Chat choir's all singing the same tune. I'm not trying to make anyone feel guilty, just stating a fact. Look at the brown_eyes saga. Regardless of whether you agree with him or not, it sure takes guts to keep fighting when you're that outnumbered. And despite what someone has said, this is not technically a liberal board where all conservatives are trolls! I will say I have never been treated like a troll, but that comment was in the other thread, so I thought I'd address it.

I respect Ledgie liberals who are able to express themselves logically and with facts. I don't admire so much the people who only join in to hoot or insult the opposition. And there are people who fall in the middle. I'm not trying to preach, just saying that you can choose to encourage discussion or you can choose to close it down by shouting down your opposition and calling them names (knowing that few people will stick around to talk once they've been insulted repeatedly, although it doesn't work with everyone). And a closed down discussion doesn't change any minds.

Well, I've got a tutoring appointment at 3:00, so I'll go ahead and end it there.

P.S. I have participated in good discussions around here and I know we're all capable of having them! We've just got to watch our tone!

[strandinthewind]

THAT - my dear Nancy - is why you are the tops!!!!!!!!!!