Tusk Survivor - FINAL ROUND - Page 16

sparky · #**226** 09-20-2004, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Tower

I think her voice is shot- very bleaty and pinched these days.

Dude ! You are full of P & V this morning. Have you been hanging around with Dissention ?

strandinthewind · #**227** 09-20-2004, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Tower

Not even close! I wouldn't say Stevie is anywhere close to the top of her game at this point.

I think her voice is shot- very bleaty and pinched these days. She refuses to show any range in her live performances.

Stevie was at "the top of her game" in 1981/1982. Those were the days!

You know I think she refuses on purpose because her voice to me soars in the SHN and, more pointedly, the SG harmonies. But, Rhainnon, Dreams, GDW - I agree and wish she would if she could give a little more of it over and break that one or so octave thing she has going on

But - I love her anyway and respect that she does not - but, hey, I can hope!!!!!

dissention · #**228** 09-20-2004, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparky

Dude ! You are full of P & V this morning. Have you been hanging around with Dissention ?

Yup, his veins are slowly turning ice cold. Pretty soon, he'll urinate in cubes.

The Tower · #**229** 09-20-2004, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparky

Dude ! You are full of P & V this morning. Have you been hanging around with Dissention ?

Who, me???

Honestly, though- listening to Stevie from the latest shows is sooooo depressing!! Someone needs to sit down with her and find out what the hell is going on with her voice and lack of energy. And puh-leeze!! Twirling around a couple of times during "Stand Back" does not count as energy...

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

Yup, his veins are slowly turning ice cold. Pretty soon, he'll urinate in cubes.

Urinating ice cubes can be very stimulating......

Johnny Stew · #**230** 09-20-2004, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

And I don't think they all have merits. Yeah, she could still pull out some amazing harmonies, some amazing lines here and there, but for the most part, her creativity was really zapped for a long time and it showed. One of the reasons I don't like or even listen to Street Angel is because it's such a depressing album. There's nothing but pain in her voice because you can hear in her how much she was suffering and how much it affected her work. Are there songs on it I like? Yes. But do they affect me like her other songs? No.

See, for me that's part of the "journey."
The "dark period" in Stevie's life and career adds more depth and weight to the songs that followed. For me, at least.

I can certainly enjoy them on their own merits, but when taken into context, they're all the more revealing.

I've always felt that Stevie doesn't really need to write a book. Just go back through all of her songs... from 1973 to today... and you have each chapter of her life and experiences.
All the good stuff, all the bad stuff. All the highs and lows. The cringe-worthy moments, and the "By God, maybe this woman IS the 'Queen Of Rock'!" moments.

To retain the analogy of an autobiography... some of the chapters are less interesting than others, but each is important to the story that follows.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

I don't either.

I just expect consistency. I mean, to go from The Wild Heart to a thing such as Rock A Little was mind-boggling to me, even though I have a new appreciation for that album. Or from the Mirror album, one of my favorites, to Street Angel. Talk about your fall from grace, Stevie.

Consistency doesn't mean that every song is going to be fantastic or blow me away, it simple means that an artist should have a bar by which they measure what's quality and what isn't. Stevie's bar must have been pretty low for awhile. Thankfully, she got "it" back or we'd be suffering through Two Kinds of Love Part Deux.

I expect consistency, too. And for some strange reason, I always find that in Stevie's material.
But I think we come at the songs with two very different points of view, or a different set of expectations on a whole, and that's why there's such a marked difference between your opinions and mine.

Quote:

And the thing is, not everyone has such a rosy view like yours when it comes to music. Sorry, but when I spend my money on a Fleetwood Mac, Stevie Nicks, or Lindsey Buckingham album, I'm expecting a certain quality from them. If they aren't up to par, I am going to be majorly let down. That's why I still can't stand some of Stevie's work; there are such wide ranges in quality from album to album. I mean, do you just buy an album from them and go in with no expectations whatsoever? If you say yes, you're a bald-faced liar.

No, like I said... "I expect to be bowled over by certain songs, and underwhelmed by others."

Those are my expectations. Oh, and I also expect to enjoy the album more than I enjoy albums by anyone else. And, again, I've never been let down.

I don't think I necessarily have a "rosy" view of things. I think I just tend to be more practical/pragmatic.
Like I said, it's pretty much built in for me that every song isn't going to be an all-time favorite... so I don't expect them to be.

It's inherent that my "bar of quality" is different from others, so I know not to expect everything to meet MY bar of quality every single time. Even if Stevie and Fleetwood Mac are the ones who set that bar, I don't expect it from them with all 12-13 tracks of every single album.
I also don't feel that my opinion of what's "crap," is, or should be, anyone else's.

This doesn't mean I happily tolerate low-rate material just because it says "Stevie Nicks" or "Fleetwood Mac" on the album cover. I do have standards. I also have many artists who I gave up on and lost interest in YEARS ago because their later material didn't live and breathe the way their earlier material had.

Stevie's songs... even "Two Kinds Of Love" and "That Made Me Stronger"... live and breathe for me. Those two aren't "all-time favorites," but they're important to me in the greater picture.

There's a reason I'm still a die-hard fan after nearly 20 years.

dissention · #**231** 09-20-2004, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

See, for me that's part of the "journey."
The "dark period" in Stevie's life and career adds more depth and weight to the songs that followed. For me, at least.

Respectfully, some of them are journey's I'd rather not take.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

To retain the analogy of an autobiography... some of the chapters are less interesting than others, but each is important to the story that follows.

But it still doesn't make those chapters any good; that's my whole point. And every book, autobiographies included, have chapters better left out of the final copy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I also don't feel that my opinion of what's "crap," is, or should be, anyone else's.

Me neither, as evidenced by the circles the two of us always seem to run in every other week.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

This doesn't mean I happily tolerate low-rate material just because it says "Stevie Nicks" or "Fleetwood Mac" on the album cover. I do have standards.

And I'm trying to understand what those standards are.

You never seem to reveal them, you only defend what I say is crap.

As for the rest, it was all personal opinion, so I really can't argue with it.

strandinthewind · #**232** 09-20-2004, 04:00 PM

Well, with all due respect, you seemingly throw around words like crap , garbage, etc. when most would go, well its okay, but not the best, etc. A good example is Angel - many consider that not to be crap

There seemingly is no in between with you. It is either great or crap

But, it is your opinion, blah, blah, yadda, yadda

amber · #**233** 09-20-2004, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

But it still doesn't make those chapters any good; that's my whole point. And every book, autobiographies included, have chapters better left out of the final copy.

But perhaps if you didn't read those chapters, you wouldn't understand the chapters that came after and you wouldn't have the depth of enjoyment of the chapters before....says the girl who doesn't have Bella Donna, Wild Heart, or RAL...

dissention · #**234** 09-20-2004, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, with all due respect, you seemingly throw around words like crap , garbage, etc. when most would go, well its okay, but not the best, etc. A good example is Angel - many consider that not to be crap

There seemingly is no in between with you. It is either great or crap

But, it is your opinion, blah, blah, yadda, yadda

The Second Time is in-between for me.

Bad music, bad vocal, but the sentiment is good and the song itself is earnest and intimate.

Angel...ugh. LOVE the lyrics, hate the end product. It sounds like a demo and I am truly shocked that it lasted so long in the game !!!!!

The only true garbage from her is to be found on RAL and SA. And a few other songs.

dissention · #**235** 09-20-2004, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amber

But perhaps if you didn't read those chapters, you wouldn't understand the chapters that came after and you wouldn't have the depth of enjoyment of the chapters before....says the girl who doesn't have Bella Donna, Wild Heart, or RAL...

Ever read The Scarlett Letter?

amber · #**236** 09-20-2004, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

Ever read The Scarlett Letter?

Yeah, why? course, i read it in highschool, so it's not too fresh...
AMber

Johnny Stew · #**237** 09-20-2004, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amber

But perhaps if you didn't read those chapters, you wouldn't understand the chapters that came after and you wouldn't have the depth of enjoyment of the chapters before....

And that was my point.

Any good novel or autobiography is much like life... you can't just skip over the "bad" parts to get to the "good stuff." That's not how it works.
It's all part of the journey.

I tend to look at Stevie's output not as a bunch of random songs, but as an overall experience, with ups and downs, and everything in between.

strandinthewind · #**238** 09-20-2004, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

And that was my point.

Any good novel or autobiography is much like life... you can't just skip over the "bad" parts to get to the "good stuff." That's not how it works.
It's all part of the journey.

I tend to look at Stevie's output not as a bunch of random songs, but as an overall experience, with ups and downs, and everything in between.

Some just wanna go directly to the fun, happy chorus and skip the set up altogether

GypsySorcerer · #**239** 09-20-2004, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I do not know about that, in the last seven years, she has sold somewhere around five millions records (The Dance, Enchanted boxed set, TISL, SYW)

- that sounds like millions to me

AND - even if you divide The Dance by three and SYW by two, she is still in the millions

So , that is still pretty good by most standards.

I know what you mean. I actually meant, though, as a solo artist, she hasn't topped millions in a long time. Most of her sales recently have come through the mass appeal of "Fleetwood Mac." Of course, she is doing very well for her age. I just disagree with Christopher's assessment she's in top form.

GypsySorcerer · #**240** 09-20-2004, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Tower

I think her voice is shot- very bleaty and pinched these days. She refuses to show any range in her live performances.

Stevie was at "the top of her game" in 1981/1982. Those were the days!

I agree. "Beautiful Child" was a vocal highlight recently, and I do like LIB "Rhiannon." But SYW is so monotonous live, it's painful. And she sounded terrible on Silver Springs this tour. No wonder they dropped it.

Vocally, she was much better during the Dance than this tour.