Competition

[Miss Vicky]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

Did I stutter? Perhaps I could find your point with a fine toothed comb. (btw, I'm am currently laughing my ass off on THIS gem!)
I felt you were disrespectful, and I stand by that opinion. Too bad if you don't like my opinion.

BTW - You seem to be the only one having trouble finding the point of my post. Therefore, I am currently laughing my ass off. And you are the expert on disrespect.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by Miss Vicky

BTW - You seem to be the only one having trouble finding the point of my post. Therefore, I am currently laughing my ass off. And you are the expert on disrespect.

Just be careful and not laugh yourself away. Again, I felt you were being disrespectful, and I called you on it. Just my opinion.

[Miss Vicky]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

Just be careful and not laugh yourself away. Again, I felt you were being disrespectful, and I called you on it. Just my opinion.

And, in my opinion, you have been completely rude and disrespectful. It's quite high and mighty of you to accuse me of disrespect while at the same time calling me "stupid."

Hypocrite.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by Miss Vicky

And, in my opinion, you have been completely rude and disrespectful. It's quite high and mighty of you to accuse me of disrespect while at the same time calling me "stupid."

Hypocrite.

In the instance I was discussing, there was nothing to defend, since I didn't say anything derogatory about CM or her work.

You said Chris' forum wasn't Chris' forum, and, in the old post to which we're referring, something to the effect that you weren't sorry to see Christine leave FM, and you didn't care for her music anyway. "I" found THAT to be a little derogatory, especially in Chris' forum.
Get over it. Yada, yada, yada.....blah, blah, blah.....
Goodnight, sweet one.

[Miss Vicky]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

You said Chris' forum wasn't Chris' forum, and, in the old post to which we're referring, something to the effect that you weren't sorry to see Christine leave FM, and you didn't care for her music anyway. "I" found THAT to be a little derogatory, especially in Chris' forum.
Get over it. Yada, yada, yada.....blah, blah, blah.....
Goodnight, sweet one.

Yes, the Christine McVie forum isn't Christine McVie's forum. It is a forum for ALL LEDGIES (be they Christine McVie fans or not) to discuss her work. I don't know how to put it in simpler English for you to understand. (And no one else seems to be having difficulty comprehending my words.)

Likewise, the Lindsey Buckingham forum isn’t Lindsey Buckingham’s forum. It is a place for all Ledgies to discuss his work, whether they are fans of his or not. I would find it neither disrespectful nor out of place for a Ledgie to express a dislike for any or all of his work as long as he or she provided their reasons. They could also say that they “were less than heartbroken when they learned he had left the band.” Being a Buckingham fan, I wouldn’t like such a statement, but I wouldn’t jump the ass of the Ledgie who made it nor accuse him or her of being “happy he was gone.”

P.S. My original post?

“I'm going to risk the wrath of other ledgies here and say that I was less than heartbroken when I learned that Christine had left the band (and indeed she HAS left the band which she has stated herself). Her leaving allowed the dynamic and musical focus of the band to change, for the better if you ask me. Their music is harder, faster, more rocking: Much more guitar and bass driven than piano driven, with less focus on vocal harmonies and more focus on the individual singers.
Most importantly for me, it has allowed Lindsey to not only take a larger share of the album space, but to use songs that might not have worked in the old situation. Had there been a stronger feminine influence in the band, I just don't think that a song such as "Come" or even "Murrow" would have made the cut. As it was Stevie tried to keep "Come" off the album and off the tour.
As much as I like most of Christine's work and the work that Fleetwood Mac has done with her, I think that the songs that make up Say You Will are some of the best that Lindsey and Stevie have produced - as part of FM or solo - in a very long time.”

Exactly where in that did I say that “I didn’t care for her music anyway”?

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by Miss Vicky

Yes, the Christine McVie forum isn't Christine McVie's forum. It is a forum for ALL LEDGIES (be they Christine McVie fans or not) to discuss her work. I don't know how to put it in simpler English for you to understand. (And no one else seems to be having difficulty comprehending my words.)

Likewise, the Lindsey Buckingham forum isn’t Lindsey Buckingham’s forum. It is a place for all Ledgies to discuss his work, whether they are fans of his or not. I would find it neither disrespectful nor out of place for a Ledgie to express a dislike for any or all of his work as long as he or she provided their reasons. They could also say that they “were less than heartbroken when they learned he had left the band.” Being a Buckingham fan, I wouldn’t like such a statement, but I wouldn’t jump the ass of the Ledgie who made it nor accuse him or her of being “happy he was gone.”

P.S. My original post?

“I'm going to risk the wrath of other ledgies here and say that I was less than heartbroken when I learned that Christine had left the band (and indeed she HAS left the band which she has stated herself). Her leaving allowed the dynamic and musical focus of the band to change, for the better if you ask me. Their music is harder, faster, more rocking: Much more guitar and bass driven than piano driven, with less focus on vocal harmonies and more focus on the individual singers.
Most importantly for me, it has allowed Lindsey to not only take a larger share of the album space, but to use songs that might not have worked in the old situation. Had there been a stronger feminine influence in the band, I just don't think that a song such as "Come" or even "Murrow" would have made the cut. As it was Stevie tried to keep "Come" off the album and off the tour.
As much as I like most of Christine's work and the work that Fleetwood Mac has done with her, I think that the songs that make up Say You Will are some of the best that Lindsey and Stevie have produced - as part of FM or solo - in a very long time.”

Exactly where in that did I say that “I didn’t care for her music anyway”?

I didn't care enough to research the original post, and SO I said "something to the effect". I'm tired of you now, you're like a bad toothache. Goodnight.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by Lux

Having an opinion and taste in music is derogatory? I too am most grateful that Lindsey's contribution to the SYW album was not reduced to one third and that his tracks were not replaced by music that has a high chance of boring me.

Ah, birds of a feather...

[Miss Vicky]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

I didn't care enough to research the original post, and SO I said "something to the effect". I'm tired of you now, you're like a bad toothache. Goodnight.

All I'm asking is where did I say or imply that? You, Mr. Holier-Than-Thou-Art, can't seem to produce an answer yet insist on calling me names and accusing me of disrespect.

As for you being tired of me... if you keep replying to my posts I'll keep replying back until I get an answer to the above question. If you want it to stop, either answer my question or stop replying. It's as simple as that.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by Miss Vicky

All I'm asking is where did I say or imply that?

Well, I'm not speaking for Homer BUT...

"I was less than heartbroken when I learned that Christine had left the band...Her leaving allowed the dynamic and musical focus of the band to change, for the better if you ask me" is a good implication.

What I find funny is that you even preface your initial post with “I'm going to risk the wrath of other ledgies here" and then you seem shocked that Homer gave you a little wrath.

Originally Posted by Miss Vicky

Yes, the Christine McVie forum isn't Christine McVie's forum. It is a forum for ALL LEDGIES (be they Christine McVie fans or not) to discuss her work. I don't know how to put it in simpler English for you to understand. (And no one else seems to be having difficulty comprehending my words.)

I completely understand your words. Still, one wouldn't go on the Stevie board and talk about how glad he or she was that Stevie wasn't on "Time" OR on the Lindsey forum and talk about how glad he or she was that Lindsey wasn't on "Behind The Mask" and that the dynamic improved because of the abscence for crying out loud. The whole point of the Christine forum is to discuss Christine's music. That, and to gush all over Christine.

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I completely understand your words. Still, one wouldn't go on the Stevie board and talk about how glad he or she was that Stevie wasn't on "Time" OR on the Lindsey forum and talk about how glad he or she was that Lindsey wasn't on "Behind The Mask" and that the dynamic improved because of the abscence for crying out loud. The whole point of the Christine forum is to discuss Christine's music. That, and to gush all over Christine.

I disagree. People go onto Stevie forums and diss her without any hesitance. Perhaps Time doesn't come up but that's only because of the fact that so many fans have never heard it. If people weren't allowed to criticize Stevie frequently in that forum then a good percentage of the threads and posts would have been deleted by now. I don't think the Christine forum should be exclusively for people who adore her, either. It really sounds like a double standard.

Besides, what Victoria said was not disrespectful. She expressed her opinion in a way that is anything but disrespectful. She could have said any number of unkind things about Chris' music and she chose not to. I can't believe that she has to defend her right to say what she said. I have to say that I respectfully disagree with Homie in this case.

[little_lune]

I am a self confessed lurker and it takes a lot to get me to post. However the attitude of HomerMcVie in this thread has managed to pull me out of lurkerdom due to my complete disgust at his (I'm presuming, 'his,' however possibly her...) condescending and utterly patronising attitude. If anybody is expressing their opinion in a disrespectful way it is most definately you.

Feel free to bash the, 'lurker police,' now

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

You said Chris' forum wasn't Chris' forum, and, in the old post to which we're referring, something to the effect that you weren't sorry to see Christine leave FM, and you didn't care for her music anyway. "I" found THAT to be a little derogatory, especially in Chris' forum.
Get over it. Yada, yada, yada.....blah, blah, blah.....
Goodnight, sweet one.

I do not want to get involved in a dispute I have no part of but I am confused about one thing. The forums and what is and is not supposed to be discussed and expressed in them . Take Stevie's forum...which Homie, I know you avoid like the plague...smilie face...people always says derogatory stuff about her there. Others jump to her defense. The forums, IMO, are a place where people can express their opinions, good, bad and ugly, right? Just because it is Christine's Forum...does than mean no one can express anything negative about Chris? Cause if that is the case...Stevie sure takes a beating in the forum entitled "Stevie Nicks". I am just saying differing opinions make the world go around and I thought that was what a message board was for..to discuss our opinions. I am shocked at some of the comments made about Stevie..right in her own forum...I just chalk it up to bad taste! lol
BTW.....I was sad to see Chris go, I missed her on SYW and feel it would have sold much better with the Rumours Five. I am a big fan of Buckingham Nicks but Christine is a part of Fleetwood Mac and Say You will was a FM album...so I missed her vocals, harmonies and songs.

[Miss Vicky]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Well, I'm not speaking for Homer BUT...

"I was less than heartbroken when I learned that Christine had left the band...Her leaving allowed the dynamic and musical focus of the band to change, for the better if you ask me" is a good implication.

What I find funny is that you even preface your initial post with “I'm going to risk the wrath of other ledgies here" and then you seem shocked that Homer gave you a little wrath.


I completely understand your words. Still, one wouldn't go on the Stevie board and talk about how glad he or she was that Stevie wasn't on "Time" OR on the Lindsey forum and talk about how glad he or she was that Lindsey wasn't on "Behind The Mask" and that the dynamic improved because of the abscence for crying out loud. The whole point of the Christine forum is to discuss Christine's music. That, and to gush all over Christine.

I prefaced my post with "I'm going to risk the wrath of other Ledgies" because, although I was rather new to this particular forum, I had been dealing with online FM fans for several years and I know how irrational some fans can get, no matter how something is worded. I wasn't shocked that someone got angry with my post, however I do feel I have every right to get offended when I am called names and told to leave.

Also, as I've said before - there is a HUGE difference between not being heartbroken over the departure of a member and being glad they're gone. So please, please, DON'T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH. I never said that I was glad she's gone. In fact, if you read the post, what I said was "I like Christine's work and the work that FM has done with her." However, now just as then, certain people choose not to notice that particular statement.

Edit: Also, when I said that the dynamic changed for better - I qualified that statement by expressing my preference for guitar driven music over piano driven music and the emphasis on individual voices over harmonies. That does not equate to an implication that I'm glad she's gone. I'm sorry if you misinterpreted my words.

[David]

Originally Posted by Miss Vicky

Edit: Also, when I said that the dynamic changed for better - I qualified that statement by expressing my preference for guitar driven music over piano driven music and the emphasis on individual voices over harmonies. That does not equate to an implication that I'm glad she's gone. I'm sorry if you misinterpreted my words.

I could probably count the instances on one hand -- two hands at most -- of genuinely piano-driven songs in the Fleetwood Mac catalog. To say that the Mac's music from 2003 on is guitar-driven instead of piano-driven is to confound definitions & concoct facts out of rhetorical stances, a habit I noticed in many of the press writeups of "Say You Will," too.

The fact of the matter is that Christine's piano/keyboards rarely took center stage in the band's music on album, & even more rarely did so on the concert stage. Actually, "Say You Will" contains a lot more keyboard & synth hardware on it than many, many older Fleetwood Mac albums. Christine's absence means absolutely nothing in terms of keyboard & synth use or overuse: tracks like "Everybody Finds Out," "Goodbye Baby," "Illume," "Say You Will," "Peacekeeper," "Smile at You," "Running Through the Garden," "Silver Girl" & "Destiny Rules" all have very prominent keys & synth parts, & are every bit as "keyboard-driven" as anything on "Tango in the Night."

If anything's different, it has nothing to do with Christine. In the old days, a good many keyboardy textures were actually created on guitars (as Lindsey has verified), whereas on the latest album, the keyboardy textures were most if not all of them created on keyboards & workstations -- many of which were even played by people who aren't in the band!

Christine's basic style in the old days was to lay back in the rhythm section. "Piano-driven" music is stuff like Elton John & Billy Joel. Fleetwood Mac was virtually never that. Even on songs like "The Way I Feel" or "Songbird," the piano is back in the mix & combined with an acoustic guitar, which just builds a general sort of texture rather than "driving" the track.

Another misimpression is that 2003 Fleetwood Mac is harder-rocking than in the past. I mean, come on. Did you _see_ a Rumours or a Tusk show?

The final misimpression is that the band now emphasizes individual voices over harmonies. Well, blow me down & call me a cab! These days, you have Stevie, Lindsey, Sharon, one or two other ladies & even one or two of the male backup musicians -- not to mention triggered voices & harmonies -- all vying for sonic space up there on stage. You didn't have that during Christine's heyday with the band. You had three singers who occasionally decided to sing harmonies together (like on "The Chain" or the "Go Your Own Way" chorus) but who more often than not let the individual voice of the lead singer on a song essentially carry it.

To prefer the band these days to its past with Christine is perfectly fine. I enjoy the debates -- bring 'em on! But why stock your reasons with concocted scenarios that never existed? Cite your *real* reasons: "I don't like Christine's songs, so I'd rather not hear them live -- especially if it's in place of one of Stevie's songs or one of Lindsey's songs." People talk about the old days with Christine as if the band sounded like Elton John pounding his way through "Burn Down the Mission" at Dodger Stadium.

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by David

People talk about the old days with Christine as if the band sounded like Elton John pounding his way through "Burn Down the Mission" at Dodger Stadium.

The closest I've heard to that is Stevie herself playing "Rhiannon"...the last track on the Enchanted box.


The only "piano-driven" track by Fleetwood Mac (not counting ballads of the "Songbird" ilk), that I can think of off the top of my head is "Say You Love Me". Whoa! Ok...of course, as I'm typing a couple more come to mind..."Sara" & "Don't Stop".