Previously Unknown/Undocu_mented pre-Fleetwood Mac Single!!!!!

[dissention]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

The only thing I find suspicious about that is, if you look at lostjukebox's feeback, he's left positive feeback for the buyer Ravenspace calling him a "quick payer", who in turn has praised Jeffrey for outstanding service.
If the original winner didn't pay, why has positive feedback been left?
Sounds to me like there are two copies...

Three copies. The old one that he advertised for on this board, and two more under the Lost Jukebox username.

Methinks I smell the pungent aroma of bull****, Jeffrey.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Certainly Karma Records can (and should) be held accountable for releasing something that never belonged to them in the first place... but once someone else buys a copy of it, I'm not sure that any legal burden should be placed on them if they choose to re-sell it.
But, admittedly, I don't know every nuance of the laws regarding these types of situations.

Johnny, I've been thinking about this myself. Jason could probably speak to this more intelligently. In this case, the laws that apply to the acceptance of stolen property may apply. Jeffrey may be liable to some extent if after he was informed this was stolen property, he went ahead with selling it anyway. But I'm not sure.

[CarneVaca]

Originally Posted by javier

These dudes are brazen because they know there is little that can be done.

Javier, I tend to agree with you that ultimately these guys, whoever they are, are committing a crime. I'd be willing to give the Jeffrey dude the benefit of the doubt to start with, but once he was told the stuff is stolen, and now it appears the material is proliferating, he apparently is no longer an innocent.

Incidentally, whoever is buying it off eBay isn't entirely clean either. If I remember correctly, buying stolen property is a crime as well.

Of course the burden of proof is with Javier, but it doesn't look like he'd have any trouble proving this is his intellectual property anyway.

Profiting from this in this way is certainly unethical. Javier, you should preempt these guys by making the stuff available for free.

[David]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

Javier, you should preempt these guys by making the stuff available for free.

Kawaboogabah-BINGO

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

The only thing I find suspicious about that is, if you look at lostjukebox's feeback, he's left positive feeback for the buyer Ravenspace calling him a "quick payer", who in turn has praised Jeffrey for outstanding service.
If the original winner didn't pay, why has positive feedback been left?
Sounds to me like there are two copies...

Or more... I guess my question is, is someone making these now and selling them on ebay as though they were old 45's? Hmmm.

[wondergirl9847]

It's telling Javier (and the rest of Fritz) that the fans want this music....like heroin!!! LOL If people are willing to pay boocoos of cash, then there must be demand for it, right?

[AliP]

Originally Posted by CarneVaca

Johnny, I've been thinking about this myself. Jason could probably speak to this more intelligently. In this case, the laws that apply to the acceptance of stolen property may apply. Jeffrey may be liable to some extent if after he was informed this was stolen property, he went ahead with selling it anyway. But I'm not sure.

Yes, I had doubts at first that Jeffrey knew this was stolen property. But now, that he is selling another (or possibly many more) then it appears to me that he is no longer a bona fide purchaser (BFP). The buyers on the other hand - assuming they didn't know it was stolen are likely BFPs.

(Note: I'm not a lawyer, one more year of law school for me )

[wetcamelfood]

Those that know me know that I don't personally collect outright bootlegs so I can say in all honesty that I had no idea this could be a boot. That's the only reason I paid what I had for it. I wouldn't have bid if I thought it was a boot.

LOL Dissention! Well, I'd happily share these tracks with those that wanted to hear them, however, since this thread is now well documented, I guess it's again down to Javier since he's obviously upset about this whole thing. I would prefer to have Marty (or whoever) post them rather than send a clip to 50 people. So if Javier says it's OK then I'll send them to whoever it should be sent to but until then, I guess we must wait to see if Javier is going to release them in a way he deems appropriate.

So before anyone tries to e mail me about this, I'm saying here and now that I will not circulate these unless I'm told it's OK by Javier or whoever (just in case these tracks do surface via buyers of the other copies of this single or whatever, I just want it to be known that it's not me they'd be circulating through, OK?).

John

[javier]

That's why he hasn't popped his little head in here, because that way he can claim he never saw my posts, therefore he was "not aware" of the true nature of these records. Sounds like he's in on something, not just an innocent collector.

[Tango]

Originally Posted by David

Kawaboogabah-BINGO

LOL! And maybe pass the word along to others.

[javier]

Thanks John, I appreciate your forthrightness and honesty. Thanks also for your restraint--I know you can do whatever you want with this property. Personally, I don't understand why you would plop down so much money on this--hope it was worth it for you. These so-called records have only surfaced this year and they are all bogus. No group would put out a record and use a totally different name--that is crazy. The advertising for the three records I have seen is all the same which leads me to really suspect Jeffrey as a front man in this operation. His absence from this site makes him doubly suspect. Give me another week to find out who these folks are.
I will need to release a real Fritz Sampler by the end of this year to at least counter these bad "Karma" bandits. I can't seem to stop or control it anymore. By hook or by crook, the Fritz is coming out!

[javier]

Can you give me this guy's address? What was the forwarding address on the item you received?

[wondergirl9847]

I hope it can all be sorted out and we can hear the music soon. Just hearing Georgia (which gives me chills) and the snippets that Jeff put up was awesome!!

Javier, John is a serious collector of FM music and a stand up guy.

[trackaghost]

Originally Posted by wetcamelfood

Those that know me know that I don't personally collect outright bootlegs so I can say in all honesty that I had no idea this could be a boot. That's the only reason I paid what I had for it. I wouldn't have bid if I thought it was a boot.

I was never in any doubt of your integrity, John I know you only collect what has been commercially released.

It's this Jeffrey who needs to answer some questions! In his first post he makes out he has found the rarest record ever and then suddenly he has two! Doesn't add up. How many more of these things are gonna pop up from out of nowhere?

[wetcamelfood]

Thanks trackaghost I felt I wanted to say that more because it was posted that I had won one and I didn't want Javier to think I circulated them when the other copies could've been sold and distributed by others via those other auctions or wherever etc.

Thanks for understanding Javier, I'll e mail you (what I have of) Jeffrey's details.

I guess it's one of these where these recordings are so rare that as a collector, you almost have to just get it and then hang on to it until it's been proven 100 million percent that it's a boot or the people in question aren't on it or whatever.

I guess these guys did do a good job at making it look authentic as the one I have here had me sold (litterally). Having collected for, well, lets just say, a long time now (blush) the stories about it being released by an underhanded manager under the "Sincerely San Jose" name didn't really surprise me as a legal loophole or the fact that he may have had multiple copies to sell since many dealers I've dealt with before usually (at least used to) obtain their stock wholesale from label warehouse overstock and therefore it was not uncommon for them to be selling more than one copy at a time of a particular item. I also wasn't thinking about this Karma label being more 50's in style, as I figured they maybe were struggling to stay a float by the late 60's (since it seems no one else knows much about them, if they ever existed in the first place that is I mean of course if we gave him the benefit of the doubt), and maybe couldn't afford/didn't have time to make graphic changes to anything by then, even though they may have been deemed "behind the times", but this is where I must wake up and realize times are a changing and they've got all the bases covered on how to dupe folks like me (extra dark blush).

Oh, thanks as well to Christy.

John