Bobby Hunt & Doug Graves

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by Mr Scarrott

Thanks for your input. Somehow, Mick's take on it in his book leads me, fwiw, to think that they were considered to be "members" of the band at the time, rather than backing musicians (like Nigel Watson, Brett Tuggle, Asante, Steve Thoma amongst others) albeit just for parts of the Heroes tour. That they never recorded anything with the band muddies it slightly.

The tour poster that I've seen just uses the back sleeve picture from HAHTF.

I guess part of the problem is that there is also a distinction between who was ever legally part of the band, rather than simply artistically- presumably like Brunning, Vito, Mason, Bramlett and maybe Burnette, Weston & Walker. I don't suppose that even Nicks and Buckingham were legally part of the band, rather than hired hands right from December 31st 1974. They were put on a salary, weren't they?

I look at it like a law firm. There are para legals (i.e. Tuggle, Heywood, et. al.) and attorneys, which are divided into associates (Mason, Bramlett, Burnette, et. al.) and partners (Mick, John, Christine, et. al.).

[wetcamelfood]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

The tour poster that I've seen just uses the back sleeve picture from HAHTF.


I look at it like a law firm. There are para legals (i.e. Tuggle, Heywood, et. al.) and attorneys, which are divided into associates (Mason, Bramlett, Burnette, et. al.) and partners (Mick, John, Christine, et. al.).

Yeah so Hunt & Graves were the para legals. S&L were on a salary to start but were considered members. After the legal stuff it's understandable them being afraid to trust others (and that's probably why they made it out to them like it was a temp to perm thing), but they knew they could survive as a quartet, and let's be honest, that was the intention once Welch left and they tried to initially get (just) Lindsey. I think Bob said at his Q&A that he did have the option of staying with S&L joining but he chose not to. So the "partners" must have drawn that line in the sand, 4 minimum members, but more is OK (i.e. when they brought in extra hands e.g. Danny, Walker, etc.).

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by wetcamelfood

S&L were on a salary to start but were considered members.

They started out as associates and became partners in the firm.

but they knew they could survive as a quartet, and let's be honest, that was the intention once Welch left and they tried to initially get (just) Lindsey. I think Bob said at his Q&A that he did have the option of staying with S&L joining but he chose not to.

Not necessarily. I think Mick wanted to ask Lindsey to join even before Bob left the band. I think he felt, based on what he heard in "Frozen Love," that Lindsey's playing style would be a great fit for the band.

Then Bob left and finding another guitarist became a necessity, and that's when he got Lindsey (and Stevie by default). It would seem reasonable that after Stevie and Lindsey were on board, Mick gave Bob another chance to reconsider leaving (hey Bob, look, we have a new guitarist and girl singer...wanna stay), but Bob said no.

I'd be curious as to what conversations happened from December 1, 1974 (last HAHTF show) through February 1, 1975.

So the "partners" must have drawn that line in the sand, 4 minimum members, but more is OK (i.e. when they brought in extra hands e.g. Danny, Walker, etc.).

That's something that Peter Green started when he asked Jeremy Spencer to join the band. Peter didn't want to be the lone frontman, and thus the band's never had one.

[Mr Scarrott]

There's some evidence that the band had made it known when they were performing that Doug Graves was a member of Fleetwood Mac in 1974- listen to the announcement at the start of this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMnRXv9ljaw

Maybe Pete Frame should update the family tree? Or maybe not...

Sorry, don't know how to embed the video.

[sharksfan2000]

Not that Wikipedia is always the most reliable source, but their entry on Fleetwood Mac includes an interesting late-'74 quote from Doug Graves:

After Warner Bros. made a record deal with the real Fleetwood Mac, the quartet released Heroes Are Hard to Find in September 1974. For the first time in its history, the band had only one guitarist. On the road, they added a second keyboardist. The first was Bobby Hunt, who had been in the band Head West with Bob Welch back in 1970, and the second was Doug Graves, who had been an engineer on Heroes Are Hard to Find. Neither proved to be a long-term addition to the line-up, although Graves was preparing to be a full member of the band following the US tour in late 1974. At the time he said:

I'm looking forward to adding something to this already great band; I helped engineer their album 'Heroes Are Hard to Find' and got to know each member well. It came to me as a shock when Mick asked me to join but I am enjoying playing live with the band, and hopefully will start a new studio album with the band soon.
—Doug Graves, Melody Maker 26 October 1974

However, Graves did not ultimately join full-time and Welch left soon after the tour ended (on December 2, 1974), having tired of the touring and legal struggles. Nevertheless, the tour enabled the Heroes album to reach a higher position on the American charts than any of the band's previous records.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by sharksfan2000

Not that Wikipedia is always the most reliable source, but their entry on Fleetwood Mac includes an interesting late-'74 quote from Doug Graves:

Never saw that before. I wonder if he was really asked to become a member and the others changed their minds, or if he just misunderstood the situation. It seems odd that the band would add somebody and it not be in the music magazines, even in 1974. Even Stevie and Lindsey joining got mentioned. I'd love to read the article in full.

[aleuzzi]

Was Bobby Hunt the keyboardist responsible for the amazing organ work on "Believe Me" during the Sausalito session? If so, he is waaaaaaaaaaaay more than merely Bob's black friend, Mick Fleetwood.

[sharksfan2000]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Never saw that before. I wonder if he was really asked to become a member and the others changed their minds, or if he just misunderstood the situation. It seems odd that the band would add somebody and it not be in the music magazines, even in 1974. Even Stevie and Lindsey joining got mentioned. I'd love to read the article in full.

Well, there's a copy of that issue on eBay if you're interested:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MELODY-MAKER...item4d177000d8

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by Mr Scarrott

There's some evidence that the band had made it known when they were performing that Doug Graves was a member of Fleetwood Mac in 1974- listen to the announcement at the start of this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMnRXv9ljaw

Maybe Pete Frame should update the family tree? Or maybe not...

I think they just wanted to introduce the people playing the show. Don Kirshner introduced them as the ORIGINAL Fleetwood Mac.

Remember, they were trying to reestablish that they (Mick, John, Christine, and Bob) were indeed the REAL Fleetwood Mac.

[wetcamelfood]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

That's something that Peter Green started when he asked Jeremy Spencer to join the band. Peter didn't want to be the lone frontman, and thus the band's never had one.

Agreed, but I was thinking more of Danny in the sense that they were happy having Jeremy there, but had no problem "adding" to the core but didn't want to go lower than a certain amount (apart from playing as a trio during PG's songs when they were a quartet).

Also, it would be strange to add Graves or Hunt as member(s) at that point since that would've confused matters in terms of getting people to understand who the real FM was at that time (something they clearly wanted to establish with HAHTF) as new fans would say "this guy (Graves/Hunt) isn't on the older albums" whereas it would be easily understandable to new fans if just Welch/MF/JM/CM were the only ones there since they had been in the band for a while by that time etc. so maybe Mick meant if things worked out they could be officially added later?

I wonder if Mick thought Christine was going to leave soon since she was the last person to agree to move to the US and even if things did go well she might leave anyway as it was well known by then that she didn't like that lifestyle to begin with so he wanted to have 2 keyboard candidates in the wings in case she left. Not that this answers the vacant guitar slot after Welch left issue but you could be right on the possible conversations between Dec '74-Feb '75).

John

[aleuzzi]

I had read somewhere recently that Doug Graves (and probably Bobby Hunt) were secured for the tour because the band decided Christine should be more visible and upfront onstage, rather than stuck behind a large bank of keyboards. This makes some sense. Up to that pint she was pretty much in the semi-background.

But it also seems the lack of a second guitarist--a first for the band in 1974--necessitated filling out the sound.

[Mr Scarrott]

I found something that looks like Bobby Hunt's old website at

http://archive.is/90Tu

On it it says Upon returning to Los Angeles Bobby was invited by Bob Welch
to work with Fleetwood Mac. Following these tours Bobby
resumed working with his organ trio. so "work with" would appear to not be a claim for membership.

I haven't found anything out about any recent activities from Bobby as the site is now defunct, but I've emailed him, just to ask if he has any memories from that time that he may care to share with us. It's worth a try. I'll let you know if anything transpires.

[nicepace]

I believe Bobby Hunt was a member of (possibly the leader of) the band Head West, with which Bob Welch played before joining Fleetwood Mac. They were a soul/funk band if I remember correctly.

I find the idea of putting Christine more "upfront" to be a little surprising. Did they actually do that during the Heroes tour? It doesn't seem she would have wanted to abandon her post behind the keyboards. I think the bootlegs from that tour sound weirdly non-Fleetwood-Mac-ish with the aggressive, funky piano (nothing at all like any of the keyboard sounds previously created by any Fleetwood Mac keyboardist).