Out of the Cradle 30th Anniversay

[bombaysaffires]

The obvious singles on this album are Countdown and Soul Drifter.

While I love Don't Look Down, it's just NOT single material.

I really like Street of Dreams into Surrender the Rain. I think they are a great documentation of where his head was at in the years leading up to this album and the whole letting stuff go he had to work thru personally. I kinda wish he would do them back to back live like on the album. The interstitial talking bit reminds me of a Laurie Anderson sort of performance art piece.

Interesting that that was sort of the last time he worked on anything with Richard and their personal friendship pretty much ended as well.

I liked the imagery of the title Out of the Cradle because it speaks simultaneously to maturity as in just aging but also to the idea of getting out of FM and that whole 'rock star' thing which can be infantilizing.

[Macfan4life]

We all celebrate this release and I think Lindsey did relish in the great reviews the album got. But it also was a little depressing because this experience stung Lindsey. If you have never seen the Behind The Music: Lindsey Buckingham there was a somber Lindsey after this album was released. Its discussed how Lindsey's hit making machine with Fleetwood Mac never materialized with his solo career and why. It mentions how Lindsey did solo shows for the first time after the release of this album but had to curtail the shows due to poor attendance. Its a very sad ending which is usually not the case with Behind The Music segments. I know he did eventually end of on Tina Turner's shows as the opening act so he did make a little money. I think it was a process of realizing that he was not going to be a solo superstar. If Lindsey would have become a big solo star, would he have come back to the Mac for the Dance? After the Eagles reunion tour, Irving definitely convinced everyone to suck it up and go out on another tour. The money was just too good to say no.

[UnwindedDreams]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

If Lindsey would have become a big solo star, would he have come back to the Mac for the Dance? After the Eagles reunion tour, Irving definitely convinced everyone to suck it up and go out on another tour. The money was just too good to say no.

I think it was Carl Stubner who contacted everyone.
I don't know think Lindsey would have come back because there wasn't a new album involved with The Dance.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by Macfan4life

We all celebrate this release and I think Lindsey did relish in the great reviews the album got. But it also was a little depressing because this experience stung Lindsey. If you have never seen the Behind The Music: Lindsey Buckingham there was a somber Lindsey after this album was released. Its discussed how Lindsey's hit making machine with Fleetwood Mac never materialized with his solo career and why. It mentions how Lindsey did solo shows for the first time after the release of this album but had to curtail the shows due to poor attendance. Its a very sad ending which is usually not the case with Behind The Music segments. I know he did eventually end of on Tina Turner's shows as the opening act so he did make a little money. I think it was a process of realizing that he was not going to be a solo superstar.

If Lindsey would have become a big solo star, would he have come back to the Mac for the Dance? After the Eagles reunion tour, Irving definitely convinced everyone to suck it up and go out on another tour. The money was just too good to say no.

Looks at the cover of Go Insane. How was ~that~ going to be a mainstream superstar? He's too weird for superstardom(Michael Jackson slipped by this rule).

Don Henley(especially) and Glenn Douchenburger were big stars solo, and they both came back to the Eagles...

[moon]

I don't have so much to say about this gem. I discovered it 10 years ago and it really marked my life, as a person, as a musician. It touched my soul as it introduced me to a world of words and music that I didn't see before, even knowing the FM music!!
I think that if it was released after the reunion of the Rumours line up for the Clinton's campaign, or released shortly before The Dance reunion, it would have had more success than what it had. 1992 was a different time for music, and Lindsey tried to put his efforts to sound like the "newer" music of that time, without a good reception.
But anyway, his music is incredible. Don't count the "commercial" thing. Wrong, Countdown, Soul Drifter are amazing songs!! Good lyrics, good rythm. Street Of Dreams, Surrender The Rain and Say We'll Meet Again can touch your heart easily.
He worked almost alone. Like on Go Insane. And it worked so good! But the ears were listening to other bands in 1992. But Lindsey showed his talent in all the instruments once again, but this time he needed to show a rock face, not like in Go Insane, where he worked so much with synths... I don't blame him if he's not a great keyboard player, probably his idea was with a basic keyboard base! And giving a more starring role to the guitars. "I told these guitars, I mean, come on!"
His worst ranked album is today by far one of his best ones. And as I said before, what he did next, especially from 2008 to the date, was basically the same. Speedy guitars, a soft voice, a basic percussion...With good moments indeed! So it gives more credit to his first three or four albums, because of the original ideas he had on them respectively...

So happy birthday to my favourite album!!!

[cbBen]

For the first time in a while, I recently listened to this album. I was surprised at how much a disliked a lot of the drum machine. Perhaps the technology was primitive then, but in any case much of it sticks out rather than blend into the music to the point where one doesn't even notice it's a machine.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by cbBen

For the first time in a while, I recently listened to this album. I was surprised at how much a disliked a lot of the drum machine. Perhaps the technology was primitive then, but in any case much of it sticks out rather than blend into the music to the point where one doesn't even notice it's a machine.

He could have hired Mick for probably $15/day.

I think he was embracing that primitive sound. I love him, but he was never destined for a big solo career. He apparently didn't want it, or underestimated the public's love of weird.

[cbBen]

Even just a better drum programmer would have helped a lot. It doesn't move with the music (and yes, good drum machine programming can do that).

[David]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

While I love Don't Look Down, it's just NOT single material.

The interstitial talking bit reminds me of a Laurie Anderson sort of performance art piece.

I liked the imagery of the title Out of the Cradle because it speaks simultaneously to maturity as in just aging but also to the idea of getting out of FM and that whole 'rock star' thing which can be infantilizing.

These bits reminded me of a theory I’ve had for a long time, which is counterintuitive. I think it’s Lindsey’s Fleetwood Mac fame that kept him from having a solid, self-sustaining solo artist career. I think if he had not been in Fleetwood Mac (or been in for only a few years), he may have created an indie career with enough buoyancy to last for decades, like Stereolab or Thomas Dolby or Elliott Smith. But he was always worrying about success at the Fleetwood level, and that sunk him over and over again. Somehow, too, many listeners who might have been in his camp in the 80s and 90s just kept comparing him with Fleetwood — “He should have been more this or more that.” But every single solo record he puts out is contraindicated by the gargantua Fleetwood Mac. He is always an extension of them (as are Stevie, Christine, Mick, and John). He cannot cut that tie; all his solo work is an analogy (this is like that or unlike that).

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by David

These bits reminded me of a theory I’ve had for a long time, which is counterintuitive. I think it’s Lindsey’s Fleetwood Mac fame that kept him from having a solid, self-sustaining solo artist career. I think if he had not been in Fleetwood Mac (or been in for only a few years), he may have created an indie career with enough buoyancy to last for decades, like Stereolab or Thomas Dolby or Elliott Smith. But he was always worrying about success at the Fleetwood level, and that sunk him over and over again. Somehow, too, many listeners who might have been in his camp in the 80s and 90s just kept comparing him with Fleetwood — “He should have been more this or more that.” But every single solo record he puts out is contraindicated by the gargantua Fleetwood Mac. He is always an extension of them (as are Stevie, Christine, Mick, and John). He cannot cut that tie; all his solo work is an analogy (this is like that or unlike that).

Part of the reason Stevie was able to have the self-sustaining solo career was doing all of the duets with the likes of Kenny Loggins, Tom Petty, and Don Henley, which allowed her to be seen as something outside of the context of Fleetwood Mac. The music she made as a solo artists sounded different from Fleetwood Mac. She also toured and kept her name out there.

While Christine wasn't especially interested in being a solo artist, she was still able to deliver something a little different from her Fleetwood Mac work by working with other musicians.

Lindsey had done so much on his own within the context of Fleetwood Mac that it was much harder to delineate his Fleetwood Mac work from his solo work. There were truly no compelling reasons to consider his solo work on its own merits. It didn't shed any new light on Lindsey, it only spoke more to his own eccentricities. That he only made three studio albums (two solo, one Fleetwood Mac) and played about 80 tour dates in 21 years (OOTC tour and The Dance) further compounded the problem.

[jmn3]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

Part of the reason Stevie was able to have the self-sustaining solo career was doing all of the duets with the likes of Kenny Loggins, Tom Petty, and Don Henley, which allowed her to be seen as something outside of the context of Fleetwood Mac. The music she made as a solo artists sounded different from Fleetwood Mac. She also toured and kept her name out there.

While Christine wasn't especially interested in being a solo artist, she was still able to deliver something a little different from her Fleetwood Mac work by working with other musicians.

Lindsey had done so much on his own within the context of Fleetwood Mac that it was much harder to delineate his Fleetwood Mac work from his solo work. There were truly no compelling reasons to consider his solo work on its own merits. It didn't shed any new light on Lindsey, it only spoke more to his own eccentricities. That he only made three studio albums (two solo, one Fleetwood Mac) and played about 80 tour dates in 21 years (OOTC tour and The Dance) further compounded the problem.

I think you have it nailed here Steve. Lindsey from a solo perspective is such an odd thing. He clearly resented a lot of Stevie's solo success, especially early on. But, in what way was he ever out there building his own name/brand as a solo act? She had her name out there everywhere starting in the late 70's so she wasn't JUST the Fleetwood Mac girl. Not touring until 1992, when he was already into his 40's and relatively unknown outside of the band, coupled with his general weirdness from a musical perspective, really hurt him from that standpoint. I mean, fine if he didn't want the solo success, but I think for many years, he kind of seemed to think it would happen. Had Lindsey mounted a big tour in 1984 and never pivoted his solo album into Tango and toured in the 1987-88 timeframe with music that was geared a bit more commercial, things may have been very different for him.

Although, I think a Dance-like reunion was inevitable no matter what happened. OOTC could have been a #1 and once Eagles did Hell Freezes Over and boomers started having money to spend, a reunited Rumours-era Fleetwood Mac was bound to occur.

[cbBen]

Lindsey addresses the above in this article. Among other things, he says it's much easier to get his work out via Fleetwood Mac than under his own name. Upon the release of Say You Will:

"I spent about seven years trying to get my material that's on this album placed and heard." "I felt an extreme need to have it have a home and get it out so someone could hear it." "I would be completely happy to continue with this [Fleetwood Mac], never to pursue anything solo again. Because it's a hell of a lot easier": https://www.fleetwoodmac-uk.com/articles/FMart115.html

[anusha]

Sigh, OOTC is still my favorite LB album and my favorite FM solo album with Bella Donna coming in second. I think it still hangs together well as a collection of songs but I don’t know if any of them really could have been serious hit singles. Somehow his solo work never quite hits the sweet spot of mass appeal the way his FM work has. He is someone who is really best suited to a band context and to producing other artists but somehow he has not come out with the songs to make a big hit. He’s come to realize that and seems to accept his solo career. I’m just glad he keeps at it — I really do love a lot of it even if it’s never going to be massively popular.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by anusha

Sigh, OOTC is still my favorite LB album and my favorite FM solo album with Bella Donna coming in second. I think it still hangs together well as a collection of songs but I don’t know if any of them really could have been serious hit singles. Somehow his solo work never quite hits the sweet spot of mass appeal the way his FM work has. He is someone who is really best suited to a band context and to producing other artists but somehow he has not come out with the songs to make a big hit. He’s come to realize that and seems to accept his solo career. I’m just glad he keeps at it — I really do love a lot of it even if it’s never going to be massively popular.

But it makes me kind of feel sorry for him. He deserved that mass appeal, but never really tried to court it. So I guess it's his own fault. Weird is never going to appeal to the masses, I guess.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by cbBen

Lindsey addresses the above in this article. Among other things, he says it's much easier to get his work out via Fleetwood Mac than under his own name. Upon the release of Say You Will:

"I spent about seven years trying to get my material that's on this album placed and heard." "I felt an extreme need to have it have a home and get it out so someone could hear it." "I would be completely happy to continue with this [Fleetwood Mac], never to pursue anything solo again. Because it's a hell of a lot easier": https://www.fleetwoodmac-uk.com/articles/FMart115.html

Well that sure seems a pivot of 180 degrees when you think of his statements that FM is so much politics and having to tiptoe around some people's sensitivities (clearly Stevie) and how it's like making a movie whereas solo work is more like painting and it's just you and no politics etc??

I TOTALLY get the point out him having to struggle to get the material out... record companies and managers seem to have been less interested in helping him get solo deals... I mean even Rob Cavallo says that he pushed Lindsey to do a "big FM multi camera show" to "really get his name out" rather than a solo album....

So I have to assume when he refers to FM as being "a hell of a lot easier" he means specifically getting a lot of people to hear his music.. NOT the process of getting music recorded