Neil Finn on Fleetwood Mac internal politics

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Imagine Christine McVie telling Lindsey he needed to sound like Bob Welch?

You say that, but Mick and John told him to get a Les Paul and Mick tried to make him use a pick.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

Yeah, that's still a hard pill to swallow all this time later. She and Lindsey could have made a second album in the year she spent on the road schleppin' the hits!

For Christine, Mick and John > Lindsey.

I’m sure there was some unbelievably colorful language, but there was never any doubt about where her loyalties were. Even Lindsey realized that and let her off the hook.

[BigAl84]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

For Christine, Mick and John > Lindsey.

I’m sure there was some unbelievably colorful language, but there was never any doubt about where her loyalties were. Even Lindsey realized that and let her off the hook.

Picture it...Fleetwood Mac sitting down for a Thanksgiving meal. Lindsey and Stevie are seated at the kids table because they truly can't behave like adults.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

She still should have stood up for the legacy of the band. ESPECIALLY after just coming off of BuckVie.

Completely disagree. The decision was made without her. And, it takes away her paycheck (once again) dealing with a war that has nothing to do with her.
It's easy to say, I would have done this or that. But, she's with Mick and John. Not Stevie or Lindsey. And that's where I expected her loyalty to be.

She's tired of being in the middle of a lousy love affair. I stand by her choice and also feel that even had she quit, it would have had zero impact because they would have toured without her. And why should she give up her (turned out to be) her last tour because of those two ego maniacs.

Finally, there's too many assumptions on what she said and did behind closed doors.

[SteveMacD]

I’m thoroughly convinced these are the two quotes that got Lindsey fired. The first also shows why Stevie wasn’t going to let him do solo shows on the days off.

Oh, the old band with Waddy Watchtel. Wow. Well, listen, I would love to do a tour with Stevie. I think that would be very appropriate. She was talking about doing it in between legs of a Fleetwood Mac tour, which is not going to happen. It's logistically impossible. It's economically suicidal because you can't do enough touring it make it worthwhile.

Putting out Buckingham Nicks, I'm totally down with that. To do what she's talking about, we need some bonus tracks. We need to do one from each of us. I'm totally down with that. I'm not necessarily opposed to doing that in a Fleetwood Mac set, although it hits me a little bit like we're going off message. But did she mention any other new material to you? I bet she didn't.

Asked how he felt about playing a show explicitly geared to evoke memories of the old days, Buckingham cringed.

”It doesn’t necessarily speak of the aspiration to present anything in the way that Fleetwood Mac would want to present it on its own terms,” he said. “But we’re all very close to Irving, so it was just sort of a ‘Why not?’”

Pretty diplomatic for a rock star.

”I was going to put it less diplomatically, but I stopped myself,” he said.

“Do the undiplomatic version,” McVie chimed in. “What were you going to say?”

”I was going to say, ‘Just close your eyes and take the money,’” Buckingham answered, and the soundstage rippled with laughter again.

He lost Stevie in 2013 and I think Fleetwood Mac would have been over after that tour, but Christine McVie had other plans. However, it’s when he lost Irving in 2017 that he was toast. Go figure tour negotiations got heated when Mike Campbell was suddenly available.

[Mr Scarrott]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Completely disagree. The decision was made without her. And, it takes away her paycheck (once again) dealing with a war that has nothing to do with her.
It's easy to say, I would have done this or that. But, she's with Mick and John. Not Stevie or Lindsey. And that's where I expected her loyalty to be.

She's tired of being in the middle of a lousy love affair. I stand by her choice and also feel that even had she quit, it would have had zero impact because they would have toured without her. And why should she give up her (turned out to be) her last tour because of those two ego maniacs.

Finally, there's too many assumptions on what she said and did behind closed doors.

I can't quite imagine a Mick/John/Stevie/Neil/Mike tour working or being marketable as Fleetwood Mac. It's techncally what theoretically existed after Christine's death until Mick pretty much confirmed the end of the band and no-one really wanted to see that re-grouping. Stevie wouldn't have gone for it, either, surely if Chris had quit. I hope Chris did enjoy that last tour, though and didn't feel it became a trudge as her health declined.

[BigAl84]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

I’m thoroughly convinced these are the two quotes that got Lindsey fired. The first also shows why Stevie wasn’t going to let him do solo shows on the days off.





He lost Stevie in 2013 and I think Fleetwood Mac would have been over after that tour, but Christine McVie had other plans. However, it’s when he lost Irving in 2017 that he was toast. Go figure tour negotiations got heated when Mike Campbell was suddenly available.

This is just my opinion, but I think you're giving Stevie too much credit lol.

Having a meltdown because Lindsey had the audacity to suggest one of her Fleetwood Mac songs might not be the best choice for the entire band to make an entrance to and then going nuclear because you catch the entire band joking around behind your back during your 10 minute monologue...all of that is much more on brand for current day Stevie Nicks.

And that's not even mentioning the fact that the whole band proved they could record an album and release it without her, which they did. She wasn't about to feel threatened or intimidated by that situation ever again, she calls the shots (as confirmed by Neil!)

[anusha]

I don’t blame Chris for making the choices she did. At first, it did seem a bit off given how well BuckVie went. But she and John were in an impossible situation Either they refused to tour - which would hurt Mick, or they went ahead and they hurt Lindsey. They were never going to have the clout to bring Lindsey back. So they took the option that allowed them to play shows and made their old friend happy.

I think the things that cemented Lindsey’s downfall were the comments he made about the classic that Steve quoted earlier, and, honestly, a lifetime of not getting along with Stevie. The fact that the marketplace showed people like Irving and Stevie that they didn’t need Lindsey anymore to sell a tour gave Stevie the power to force the issue, especially when she wanted to give Mike Campbell a job after Tom Petty died. The fact that she maintained her solo career and was touring large venues on her own, gave her a lot of power in the marketplace. Not to mention, connecting herself to younger artists and getting herself in the media over the years.

And now she’s been able to parlay that into having her own solo tours in large venues without having to answer for firing Lindsey. If the backlash to her firing, Lindsay weren’t so bad, there might still be Fleetwood Mac projects she would consider. But she reacted so poorly to being called out, that she would never agree to do a Fleetwood Mac tour again when she could bask in the adoration of her fans.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by anusha

I don’t blame Chris for making the choices she did. At first, it did seem a bit off given how well BuckVie went. But she and John were in an impossible situation Either they refused to tour - which would hurt Mick, or they went ahead and they hurt Lindsey. They were never going to have the clout to bring Lindsey back. So they took the option that allowed them to play shows and made their old friend happy.

I think the things that cemented Lindsey’s downfall were the comments he made about the classic that Steve quoted earlier, and, honestly, a lifetime of not getting along with Stevie. The fact that the marketplace showed people like Irving and Stevie that they didn’t need Lindsey anymore to sell a tour gave Stevie the power to force the issue, especially when she wanted to give Mike Campbell a job after Tom Petty died. The fact that she maintained her solo career and was touring large venues on her own, gave her a lot of power in the marketplace. Not to mention, connecting herself to younger artists and getting herself in the media over the years.

And now she’s been able to parlay that into having her own solo tours in large venues without having to answer for firing Lindsey. If the backlash to her firing, Lindsay weren’t so bad, there might still be Fleetwood Mac projects she would consider. But she reacted so poorly to being called out, that she would never agree to do a Fleetwood Mac tour again when she could bask in the adoration of her fans.

and alas, the death of Christine gives her a perfectly plausible excuse for not doing anymore FM that doesn't reference Lindsey at all.

And frankly, I think more than Stevie, what has put the nail in the FM coffin is John retiring from doing any more tours or whatever. As sleazy as he can be, Mick will not go out as FM without John, period. So...would he tour with Stevie doing FM songs in some form or fashion? Maybe so. But to call it FM, I think he would draw the line. Especially with both John AND Chris now gone. I could be wrong however......

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by BigAl84

This is just my opinion, but I think you're giving Stevie too much credit lol.

Having a meltdown because Lindsey had the audacity to suggest one of her Fleetwood Mac songs might not be the best choice for the entire band to make an entrance to and then going nuclear because you catch the entire band joking around behind your back during your 10 minute monologue...all of that is much more on brand for current day Stevie Nicks.

And that's not even mentioning the fact that the whole band proved they could record an album and release it without her, which they did. She wasn't about to feel threatened or intimidated by that situation ever again, she calls the shots (as confirmed by Neil!)

Oh, I think you’re thoroughly underestimating her capacity to hold a massive grudge.

Also, I think Lindsey was toast before MusiCares. All that the playing of “Rhiannon” and the dancing while she was talking did was make her not feel bad about it.

[Mr Scarrott]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

As sleazy as he can be, Mick will not go out as FM without John, period.

Didn't Lindsey allege in his lawsuit that Mick was prepared to get a substitute bassist when John was ill with cancer in 2013? The Australian/NZ leg was eventually cancelled, though, in the end.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by Mr Scarrott

Didn't Lindsey allege in his lawsuit that Mick was prepared to get a substitute bassist when John was ill with cancer in 2013? The Australian/NZ leg was eventually cancelled, though, in the end.

I believe that's correct.

[SteveMacD]

Originally Posted by Mr Scarrott

Didn't Lindsey allege in his lawsuit that Mick was prepared to get a substitute bassist when John was ill with cancer in 2013? The Australian/NZ leg was eventually cancelled, though, in the end.

That was likely just a backup plan in case they couldn’t get out of the shows for some reason.

George Hawkins was their backup plan for years, at least per his Q&A.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by SteveMacD

You say that, but Mick and John told him to get a Les Paul and Mick tried to make him use a pick.

I always assumed that was due to his "blues chops" being a bit primitive (for their core songs at that point) . Where Mike and Rick had no trouble whatsoever doing either blues, or Lindsey pop.

[jbrownsjr]

Bob and Stevie wrote a song titled "Angel" about her!